The more you live, the better at poker you get

sard1010

Hey guys, if I may be humble enough to suggest that there may still be a couple members on this forum that remember me... I'm the guy that comes with a bunch of enthusiasm and questions and then disappears for a few months...

It's been maybe close to a year since my last post, and I played a session of 1/3 NL Holdem at Niagara this past Saturday night with my cousin and brother. And that was my first time touching cards in almost a year too! Although I have never stopped thinking that poker was awesome and that I'd love to play.

I have a few questions from the session:

1) Table etiquette / Table talk - Heads up, can I tell my opponent what I hold or even reveal my hand? Can I lie about what I have? I tried more table talk and I want to make sure I'm always within proper respect, etiquette, and integrity of the game. I can always discuss a hand that has been completed, regardless of whether or not I was in it? Any other basic table talk type etiquette? I very much enjoyed being friendly and engaging the table so I want to know what I'm entitled to.

2) Showing one card before a fold - Rules around doing this, reasons for doing it? Like I mentioned above, can I do it even during a hand in progress (only heads up or even multi?)?

I had a very fun session. Easily my best showing at the casino all the way around. Felt comfortable, relaxed, and confident. In the end, I did lose $10 of my $100 buy-in, but to me that's besides the point of just how much fun I had and how confident I felt. Like I'm saying with my cousin, I just need to get in the "reps." Exposure at the table; being in hands or even just observing them is all I need to get better. So it's just a matter of continuing to play and having fun.

I told myself going into the session that being relaxed and confident were my only keys - and I believe I was right. The table talk and just getting to know people around the table and having fun is great too.

I could only think of those two questions for now, as always I appreciate input and feedback. Haven't heard from anyone on this forum in a while. I'll be keeping my eyes out for one of moose's cash games or something too since the price of admission has gone up at Niagara.

Blessings,
Joe

trigs

1) i'm not 100% sure if you can show hole cards when heads up in casinos during a cash game, but you definitely can't in a tournament. the rule may depend on the specific casino i'd imagine. yes, you can talk about a hand once it's been completed even if you weren't involved, but i personally would suggest against it. i find that most people just give away too much information about how they play when discussing previous hands. normally, if i discuss a previous hand, i like to make comments about actions that i wouldn't have made just to mess with my opponents. as for other table talk etiquette: don't talk to a person who's in a hand; don't make suggestions about actions; don't berate bad play; generally just try to be nice.

2) you can never show a card in a multi-way pot ever. again, once down to heads up it depends on the casino. also, be aware that if you decide to do something like flash one card and then muck your hand, the other players may be entitled to see your second card as well.

btw, this was all for in a casino. usually in home games no one minds if you show hole cards ;)

djgolfcan

Next thing, don't buy in for only $100. That's only 30BBs - one bad beat and its all gone. Even the regs at Casino Niagara will stack off with top pair, top kicker, you need to have enough to take advantage of that.
If you're just going to have fun, then by all means, but if you're going to make money, buy in for the max.

Richard~

People keep saying this as if it's a bad thing but top pair top kicker is often a very strong hand, I've never seen the hype around being a fish calling off with AQ on 238Q with a could of a suit.

Personally I wouldn't buy in for the max at my local games, that would be around 500 bigs and people put you into disgusting spots at that poker club. Last time I was there I saw a guy raise pre, double barrel, get raised on the turn, hit his A for AKs on the river, call a 250 BB river bet upon which his opponent instamucked his hand. This was a 2/2 game

sard1010

djgolfcan;407016 wroteNext thing, don't buy in for only $100. That's only 30BBs - one bad beat and its all gone. Even the regs at Casino Niagara will stack off with top pair, top kicker, you need to have enough to take advantage of that.
If you're just going to have fun, then by all means, but if you're going to make money, buy in for the max.

$100 is most reasonable for me financially and most comfortable for me being highly amateurally. I hear you 100% though, I had the same thought at this last session. Buying in for the max would be ideal and in many ways could be "more comfortable" than the min.. It can be scary and depressing to think (or worse, experience) one little bad beat cuz of some noob bad move I made or worse, the infamous "I hit Top pair / Top kicker" and my opponent made a set (has happened to me before, sucks a lot and I have no clue how to sniff that out).

Richard~;407018 wrotePeople keep saying this as if it's a bad thing but top pair top kicker is often a very strong hand

Can you guys please flesh out this "debate" of it either being noobish to "stack off" with Top pair / Top kicker or it being smart to realize that it is a very strong holding and often you are right to consider it strong?

And Richard, can you flesh out your discourse on being put into "disgusting spots" and how that can be a reality of navigating a 1/3 game and interacting with fish, drunk people, and the stronger players? How do I make my home among this assortment of humanity, and become an effective player?

I've heard Tight / aggressive is nice against calling stations. Play premium hands. Make your hand. Bet and get paid. Last session I enjoyed being slightly loose / aggressive, but still playing well. In position, and aggressive seemed to work well for me. If I played only premium hands by best hand in two hours was J / 10 suited and my second best hand was K / J. (I guess I also got to middle pocket-pairs, which is nice too.)

One more hand from the session

I'm always terrible with describing a hand perfectly, but still looking for feedback. I was playing K / J, and heads up and in position. The flop came 10 / 10 / 4 rainbow. He checked and I bet. He called. On the turn, I made top pair, as a K came down. He now decided to lead with a bigger bet (like $34). I was immediately frozen with a big decision for my small, min buy-in stack. I gave him credit for possibly having a 10 in-hand. Is that smart? Or should I possibly have considered my two-pair strong? I mean, mathematically, it's pretty likely he wouldn't have a 10, but obv he still could have it.

I actually took enough time that someone called time (which doesn't take much since we're all antsy on the new $5 / half hour system). Within my last 10s of time, I mucked.

I asked him as I left, and he claimed he just had a pair, not the 10. I wonder if it was the 4, or maybe a K like me. Who knows. My friend, at the table with me, thought he showed weakness when I "bothered" him with my table talk. (I was asking him if he had the 10, lol. He would not reveal. He just got mildly bothered after a couple times, and my friend thought my talk had been effective in revealing weakness. Lol, let's just say I think Will Kassouf is cool.)

Thoughts? :D

djgolfcan

I think the "top pair / top kicker" debate is opponent dependent. If a tight player is raising me, I have to re-evaluate if I'm good or not. It also depends on stack sizes, if they are short, they may push with a wider range.
-
I guess, as in most things in poker, it depends.

Richard~

To add to that if you're frequently folding TPTK to bets on the flop or turn you can very easily start overfolding unless you're doing it on boards where you have many other better hands to call with

sard1010

djgolfcan;407029 wroteI think the "top pair / top kicker" debate is opponent dependent. If a tight player is raising me, I have to re-evaluate if I'm good or not. It also depends on stack sizes, if they are short, they may push with a wider range.
-
I guess, as in most things in poker, it depends.

True enough. I think I'm going to lean on the idea that TPTK is quite strong. As of late, I seem to be noticing weaker players at the 1/3 table and TPTK is quite strong. Like my cousin says though, when flush draws and whatnot are about, still do bet heavy to chase.

Richard~;407038 wroteTo add to that if you're frequently folding TPTK to bets on the flop or turn you can very easily start overfolding unless you're doing it on boards where you have many other better hands to call with

Ya, I mean sniffing out that they just made a flush when the turn gives 3 hearts on board for example, is tricky. Or if they need something random like 4 / 7 to make the straight is weird. I guess it's just playing as many hands as I can and hopefully not making too many costly errors or getting dealt bad beats. But hey, that is part of the game too.

westside8

Anything you do at the table will give away information to your opponents, whether they know what to do with it, is a different story, but you want to give away as little as possible. If you were to engage in table talk, avoid talking about poker. Be engaging and talk sports, or anything else, but avoid talking about poker as a whole. Whether that being the last hand, or a few hands ago, or strategy, all is a no no IMO.

In regards to talk during a hand, I'm not sure what the house rules are specifically at Niagara, but in a multiway pot, any talk is prohibited no matter what. Heads up, some places will let you, but again, as per above, avoid it as a whole.

Don't ever show a card when folding in a multiway pot. I wouldn't show even when heads up either. No real reason why it's beneficial for you to show.

Yeah, and don't buy in for $100 if you are able to financially. I would also bring a couple of buy ins when you go. Reason for buying in for more, is not that you could suffer a bad beat once and you're done, but more so you want to maximize the amount of money you can win by having more in your stack. And the reason to bring another buy in or two is, especially if you're only starting with $100 at a 1/3, you will have opportunities where it's mathematically right to get it in (let say nut flush draw with overcards, AKhh on JT3hh) and you just don't win the flip. If you only had one buy in on you, you'll be less incline to get it in and would just call the flop or something.