Rehashing a familiar complaint

trigs

sard1010;398498 wroteThe high number of rigged-related emails may directly relate to the fact that it is rigged?

BOOM! he fucking got you there!

#truefacts

sard1010

I just lost holding pocket Jacks and I lost to pocket Queens while playing online at PokerStars. I just had to call his big river bet for all of my chips "just to see" that once again pocket pair over pocket pair happened. Honestly based on the number of times I've seen even tough beats like pocket Aces over pocket Kings happen on PokerStars I sorta knew I was in for it, but I had to see it almost just to get a cheap (or not $o cheap) laugh.

I'm aware that pocket Jacks can be beat by a better pocket pair, but how legitimate of a threat is that in legitimate poker? Is it very rare, fairly common, or in-between? I emailed PokerStars asking about the exact odds that pocket Jacks lose to a better pocket pair; not exactly out of rage but more curiousity to see if my situation makes sense. Like I said I've seen fairly big pocket pairs battle it out quite often in my online play and I sorta suspect it's too often.

Didn't mean to rehash the rehashed thread but this just came up and once again I wanted to vent and you guys are just so awesome so I knew you'd care about me, my well-being and my burgeoning poker career, online or otherwise. Any thoughts are appreciated much, thanks guys! :)

EDIT: I know some people mentioned it already, but is it a general consensus/opinion here on this forum that a lot (if not all) of online poker is rigged? I'm still hesitant myself to fully believe it despite my experiences, since sites like PokerStars are so legit and well-established, it seems impossible. Plus, I want to be able to play poker online and it's still sorta fun either way, so I'm rooting for it.

Monoxide

Yes. Its rigged.

DrTyore

sard1010;399011 wroteI just lost holding pocket Jacks and I lost to pocket Queens while playing online at PokerStars. I just had to call his big river bet for all of my chips "just to see" that once again pocket pair over pocket pair happened. Honestly based on the number of times I've seen even tough beats like pocket Aces over pocket Kings happen on PokerStars I sorta knew I was in for it, but I had to see it almost just to get a cheap (or not $o cheap) laugh.

I'm aware that pocket Jacks can be beat by a better pocket pair, but how legitimate of a threat is that in legitimate poker? Is it very rare, fairly common, or in-between? I emailed PokerStars asking about the exact odds that pocket Jacks lose to a better pocket pair; not exactly out of rage but more curiousity to see if my situation makes sense. Like I said I've seen fairly big pocket pairs battle it out quite often in my online play and I sorta suspect it's too often.

Didn't mean to rehash the rehashed thread but this just came up and once again I wanted to vent and you guys are just so awesome so I knew you'd care about me, my well-being and my burgeoning poker career, online or otherwise. Any thoughts are appreciated much, thanks guys! :)

EDIT: I know some people mentioned it already, but is it a general consensus/opinion here on this forum that a lot (if not all) of online poker is rigged? I'm still hesitant myself to fully believe it despite my experiences, since sites like PokerStars are so legit and well-established, it seems impossible. Plus, I want to be able to play poker online and it's still sorta fun either way, so I'm rooting for it.

I'm pretty sure you're going to disregard me.. but 90% of the people agreeing that it's rigged are fucking with you. Nobody believes that unless they do not understand that impobable /= impossible as I said earlier. It is not rigged. These things happen. Go play 10k live hands and you'll see it happens about 1/3 as often per house as it does online, and that's because online is faster so you see more hands (In this example, about three times as many).

Mark

trigs

live is rigged too. i never win with KK at BCC.

-ANTE RIVER-

sard1010;399011 wroteI just lost holding pocket Jacks and I lost to pocket Queens while playing online at PokerStars. I just had to call his big river bet for all of my chips "just to see" that once again pocket pair over pocket pair happened. .

Easy solution, FOLD ALL POCKET PAIRS NO MATTER WHAT and you will never lose another dime to the conspiracy!

FU rigged poker sites!

UBetIFold

-ante river-;399025 wrote
fu trigs

fyp

DataMn

OK, I'll bite on the actual odds for a few of these...

>> I'm aware that pocket Jacks can be beat by a better pocket pair,
>> but how legitimate of a threat is that in legitimate poker?
>> Is it very rare, fairly common, or in-between?

You don't state how many players are playing, but the chance of one opponent having QQ, KK or AA when you have JJ is about 1.47% [ (4*3/50/49)*3 ].

With 5 opponents it is ~ 7.13%.
With 7 opponents it is ~ 9.84%
With 9 opponents it is ~ 12.47%

Of course, this has nothing to do with the likelihood that your opponent has one of those hands when they shove over the top of your raise!

sn1perb0y

I always thought that when people say its rigged, they are just trolling. I guess not, not I'm tilted.

DataMn

Chance of getting QQ twice in a row is (4*3/52/51)^2 = 0.00205%

But, if you are dealt 1000 hands the chance of this happening at least once is 2.03%
5000 hands - 9.73%
10000 hands - 18.51%
15000 hands - 26.44%
20000 hands - 33.6%

pkrfce9

Al your numbers are off in the fifth decimal place. This will impact if you are talking about 1-1.579834 billion hands.

trigs

moar stats!!

sard1010

DrTyore, I would never disregard you. :)

Thanks for the influx of conversation in response to my post, much useful trivia here. I agree, the hands do go a lot faster online, so that could lead to something of a "faster poker experience" if that makes sense. So I'm encountering things faster and more unlikely things become more likely to happen given this rate of play. Alright, I'm catching on. I still would contest just a touch the notion of "improbable does not mean impossible" just in the sense that I would say "improbable doesn't mean probable" or that "improbable should never become probable", which is another way of voicing my concern that my online poker experience has been a tad askew.

(See now, no disregard at all DrTyore, I appreciate your post and it was helpful, any continued input if possible is greatly appreciated.)

Oh ya, and thanks trolls for making me feel in solidarity with you about the rigged nature of online poker when all along you were just trolling. Unless DrTyore was wrong on that one...

I'm increasingly willing to not be a conspiracy theorist (I've never liked conspiracies and rigged online poker I guess would have to be one), and I've always understood the incredible unlikelihood of a legitimate poker company like PokerStars being anything but legitimate. However, I still hang a little onto the thread that irregardless of "rate of play" I still find the situations arising in the hands I play or witness to be not in tune with the regular poker I play. It's just a thread though, and the sooner I can let go of it the more fun and trust I'll have online with my money and my love for playing poker online.

I mean c'mon, I practically knew the dude must have had a better pocket pair than me, and I'm not Daniel Negreanu. I just called to confirm more (pardon my french) online poker bs. I've seen pocket pair over inferior pocket pair happen a kabillion times online. Maybe I'm not understanding that they're actually are many key differences to the style and overall texture of playing online versus live. Things like the speed of play, lack of real human interaction, and not being able to spot any real physical tells.

DrTyore

sard1010;399090 wroteDrTyore, I would never disregard you. :)

Thanks for the influx of conversation in response to my post, much useful trivia here. I agree, the hands do go a lot faster online, so that could lead to something of a "faster poker experience" if that makes sense. So I'm encountering things faster and more unlikely things become more likely to happen given this rate of play. Alright, I'm catching on. I still would contest just a touch the notion of "improbable does not mean impossible" just in the sense that I would say "improbable doesn't mean probable" or that "improbable should never become probable", which is another way of voicing my concern that my online poker experience has been a tad askew.

You're not QUITE there yet...

- "Improbable does not mean probable"... well.. yes, that's exactly true... you're not "encountering things faster and more unlikely things become more likely".. for THAT to be the case, the likelihood, not the volume of hands, would have to change. You are encountering things faster, and unlikely things occur more quickly, and your monkey brain (no offense we're all monkey brains) sees that as happening more frequently. A distinct, and important difference.

(See now, no disregard at all DrTyore, I appreciate your post and it was helpful, any continued input if possible is greatly appreciated.)

Oh ya, and thanks trolls for making me feel in solidarity with you about the rigged nature of online poker when all along you were just trolling. Unless DrTyore was wrong on that one...

I'm not wrong, but don't be too hard on them.. you'll be trolling along with the rest of us soon enough. ;)

I'm increasingly willing to not be a conspiracy theorist (I've never liked conspiracies and rigged online poker I guess would have to be one), and I've always understood the incredible unlikelihood of a legitimate poker company like PokerStars being anything but legitimate. However, I still hang a little onto the thread that irregardless of "rate of play" I still find the situations arising in the hands I play or witness to be not in tune with the regular poker I play. It's just a thread though, and the sooner I can let go of it the more fun and trust I'll have online with my money and my love for playing poker online.

Try this... play 1000 hands online, and make a count of anytime you see a set / set or pair / pair hand. Then do the same for live... I bet the hashmarks will be pretty close. And again, the 1000 hands isn't nearly representative enough.... but for 1000 hands live you're going to have to count for like, a 40 hour work week.

I mean c'mon, I practically knew the dude must have had a better pocket pair than me, and I'm not Daniel Negreanu. I just called to confirm more (pardon my french) online poker bs. I've seen pocket pair over inferior pocket pair happen a kabillion times online. Maybe I'm not understanding that they're actually are many key differences to the style and overall texture of playing online versus live. Things like the speed of play, lack of real human interaction, and not being able to spot any real physical tells.

See above... I played at buzzard's game just last weekend, and played a hand where my pocket JJ hit a J on the turn, only to lose the pocket AA that had hit an A on the flop. Lost quite a bit of coin in that hand, but it was fun, and I kinda played it terri-bad, so.... it happens. I've seen quads over quads live, the dreaded 89dd vs AKdd on a TJQdd board.... it happens everywhere.

Bolded...

Mark

djgolfcan

Please refer to my bad beat posts, there are numerous. My last two LIVE tournaments I have been knocked out after being a 95% favourite on the flop.

DrTyore

djgolfcan;399104 wrotePlease refer to my bad beat posts, there are numerous. My last two LIVE tournaments I have been knocked out after being a 95% favourite on the flop.

AND you're still trying to figure out that 57o cash game hand I played :)

Mark

Milo

Fails to understand how probability relates to online poker.
Fails to understand Law of Big Numbers, and how it relates to same
Fails to listen to Mark when he is actually trying to help

That is a LOT of FAIL. Kudos.

also . . .

Mark, with respect to your JJ hand at Dave's:

there are, at last count, EIGHT ways you can play pocket Jacks. ALL of them are STILL wrong.

DrTyore

Milo;399129 wroteFails to understand how probability relates to online poker.
Fails to understand Law of Big Numbers, and how it relates to same
Fails to listen to Mark when he is actually trying to help

That is a LOT of FAIL. Kudos.

Dude, we kinda worked this out, he started to come around, and you pop in just to antagonize again? Do you need to chime in so much that you're going to re-agitate the new guy?

Mark

kaipanoulias666

I'm a little late to this party, but to help ease your mind a little, here are a few crazy things I have seen live. (I play both live and online, and in my experience, I've seen much stranger things live than online.)

1) I had pocket Kings and was in a 5 way pot. The flop (which I folded on) was A29 rainbow. My opponents hands were: KK, A2, A2, and crazier still, A2!

2) I watched a four way all in pot where the hands were AA, AA, KK, and KK. If that's not enough for you, the player with the A of spades won with a four flush board.

3) this is probably my favourite. Final board was AQ973. All players were all in on the river (after a whole lot of slowplaying on everyone's part) all players showed, because it was hilarious. Hands; AA,QQ,99,77,33 and AQ!

So as painful as your beats are, and the quick way you were dealt them, just remember these three hands from live casino games. Yes variance sucks, but a whole lot of crazy things can happen in this beautiful game we call poker. :)

sard1010

DrTyore;399102 wroteBolded...

Mark

Thanks for sticking it out with my monkey brain Mark. :) Your efforts, along with the others who have chimed in lately in this thread have all but swayed me to the reality of a legitimate online poker experience. And you've done me a great favour because that's what I've wanted all along! :D

djgolfcan;399104 wrotePlease refer to my bad beat posts, there are numerous. My last two LIVE tournaments I have been knocked out after being a 95% favourite on the flop.

If you get a chance to toss a link into this thread you'd do my lazy behind a favour cuz I'd like to read about your bad beats. Or I'll get to it myself sometime in the next five years, lol.

Milo;399129 wroteFails to understand how probability relates to online poker.
Fails to understand Law of Big Numbers, and how it relates to same
Fails to listen to Mark when he is actually trying to help

That is a LOT of FAIL. Kudos.

DrTyore;399130 wroteDude, we kinda worked this out, he started to come around, and you pop in just to antagonize again? Do you need to chime in so much that you're going to re-agitate the new guy?

Mark

Again, thanks Mark (lol). Unfortunately, online and irl I can be agitated a little too easily sometimes. Nice to have someone back you up.

kaipanoulias666;399151 wroteI'm a little late to this party, but to help ease your mind a little, here are a few crazy things I have seen live. (I play both live and online, and in my experience, I've seen much stranger things live than online.)

1) I had pocket Kings and was in a 5 way pot. The flop (which I folded on) was A29 rainbow. My opponents hands were: KK, A2, A2, and crazier still, A2!

2) I watched a four way all in pot where the hands were AA, AA, KK, and KK. If that's not enough for you, the player with the A of spades won with a four flush board.

3) this is probably my favourite. Final board was AQ973. All players were all in on the river (after a whole lot of slowplaying on everyone's part) all players showed, because it was hilarious. Hands; AA,QQ,99,77,33 and AQ!

So as painful as your beats are, and the quick way you were dealt them, just remember these three hands from live casino games. Yes variance sucks, but a whole lot of crazy things can happen in this beautiful game we call poker. :)

Haha, thanks for joining the party and for your thoughts. Those are some hard-to-even-believe-they-could-happen scenarios, you don't even see hands quite that crazy on YouTube.

Hopefully I can enjoy online poker a little more now as my mind slowly comes at ease with all of the insanity that can ensue while playing poker.

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