What would you have done?

kwsteve

Winning Poker Network - $0.50 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 239.54 BB
Hero (BB): 53.66 BB
UTG: 114.18 BB
UTG+1: 63.18 BB
MP: 54.14 BB
MP+1: 242 BB
MP+2: 48.6 BB
CO: 82.1 BB
BTN: 103.96 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:club: K:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 calls 1 BB, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.5 BB, Hero calls 2 BB, MP+2 calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) K:heart: A:diamond: J:heart:
SB checks, Hero checks, MP+2 bets 3.8 BB, CO raises to 11.4 BB, SB raises to 236.54 BB and is all-in,

Hero ????

Only 20 hands in so no real reads. And, all new players on Truepoker so no history either.

Bfillmaff

think you need to fold that one, just way too likely that you are crushed.

Bfillmaff

against two opponents:

and even against one:

kwsteve

Cool, what program is that?

Bfillmaff

its called equilab, here's the link if you want to try it out

kwsteve

Cool, thanks.

I did fold the hand. But it ended up I would have split the pot with CO who had the same KJ which held up against top pair flush draw.

chaimr1924

kwsteve;388127 wroteCool, thanks.

I did fold the hand. But it ended up I would have split the pot with CO who had the same KJ which held up against top pair flush draw.

Only fish play JK it ia a loser hand most of the time unless you get very lucky against very good players.My 2 cents worth.

Bfillmaff

chaimr1924;388161 wroteOnly fish play JK it ia a loser hand most of the time unless you get very lucky against very good players.My 2 cents worth.

If you are folding KJ in your BB, to one raise, while getting 4-1... you are making a pretty big mistake.

Steve on the other hand made a correct decision pre flop and then folded to big action from a range that had him beat. What a fish!!

pkrfce9

Bfillmaff;388166 wroteIf you are folding KJ in your BB, to one raise, while getting 4-1... you are making a pretty big mistake.

Steve on the other hand made a correct decision pre flop and then folded to big action from a range that had him beat. What a fish!!

well, i disagree on both points. if you want to get technical (and i do from time to time) 'steve' wasn't deep enough to make the call pf. the explicit odds are garbage for that hand and the implied odds are just not there.

but since he called, now he isn't deep enough to fold. he's getting almost 2:1 on a call and he has no read on the guy who is willing to jam 200+bbs into a 35bb pot against a bet and a raise. with 2 more seemingly interested players to act, he could end up getting 4:1. just call and prepare to reload. i think the preferred play would have been to lead the flop and be hard-pressed to fold the short stack.

at 100+bbs deep, it is an ok call pf and an ok fold on the flop.

Bfillmaff

Interesting points, and I'll concede that pre flop out of position you could argue a fold. (As a fish myself, I'm still never folding there... but you know that about me already.)

The flop call though (tho?) I think I'll go ahead and disagree with. 2-1 is great and all but do we really "need" to overcall here against 3 raisers for 48BB and just hope everyone has hearts?? We saw a flop for 4BB and havent put another chip in since!

Just seems like the best case scenario we're against Ahxh and KJ, which just happened to be the case...rest of the time we're dead.

pkrfce9

Bfillmaff;388180 wroteInteresting points, and I'll concede that pre flop out of position you could argue a fold. (As a fish myself, I'm still never folding there... but you know that about me already.)

So we agree on 2 things then.

There are enough draws and unknown agro idiots that I think you have sufficient odds to call with the short stack. Sure I'd feel better with better odds but if you make that call with a short stack, this is a great flop for you. Again much easier played if you lead out on the flop...

Bfillmaff

If we ever do get a group going, this would be a good one to look back at. I've been playing around with the ranges a bit and it's interesting to see what happens.

For example, if we assume that the 3rd villian will 100% of the time do a good old fashioned online stack punt with any two hearts, we go up to 47% equity heads up, but we drop to 17% if we are called by one of the other raisers still left to act. So if we can identify how often the average online player will do something like that, and then add in the chance that either MP+2 or CO has a hand that can call, I think we could get pretty close to an answer.