kwsteve
You're all for a wage freeze and Hudak voted it down. So you'll not vote Con this time? Highly doubtful!
You find the irony delicious? I can say the same about your stance.
We can accomplish the same thing that all the Cons want without the draconian 100K job cuts that Hudak wants. Sounds good. What Con wouldn't vote Liberal right now? Unless you want some schadenfreude with your dinner.
Milo;376045 wroteit will be so much fun to listen to squealing of the pigs at the Public Sector trough when she drops the hammer. It's going to be a fun week . . .
Sounds like you do.
By the way, Hudak's 30% reduction of corporate taxes will cost Ontario $3.1B per year. Can we afford that?
http://www.pressprogress.ca/en/post/3-tim-hudak-corporate-tax-myths-busted-and-given-beat-down
Milo
Weren't you the one saying that growing the economy will INCREASE revenues? Please make up your mind . . .
Have a good weekend all.
kwsteve
Milo;376052 wroteWeren't you the one saying that growing the economy will INCREASE revenues? Please make up your mind . . .
Have a good weekend all.
That's what the Liberal budget would have done, given the extra year of deficit spending. I don't think I've been ambiguous at all.
In all honesty and with all due respect Milo, you're not a billionaire businessman. Your vote for PC is a vote against the common working person, teachers, nurses and health workers, anyone in a union, students, even the OPP has come out against Hudak. You want to punish the Liberals? Fine. But to feel joy at 100k of your fellow Ontarians getting fired or laid off from their job is, well, kind of a disgrace in my view.
With all due respect.
5 crushing factoids about Tim Hudak's mystery economist | Press Progress
Milo
The OPP UNION has come out against Hudak, primarily because of the Public Sector wage freeze he is advocating. Wonder how they feel about Kathy's freeze?
A vote against the "common" working person? Well, that would depend on how you define "common" wouldn't it. Me? I define it as the poor working stiff who has not seen a pay raise beyond Cost of Living (if that) in the last 5 years, a person working in a private sector Union shop who has given back some of their benefits or wage increases to ensure the doors stay open for everyone, the retiree who has seen his pension reduced as part of a package that keeps current workers employed and therefore keeps HIS benefits coming every month. All this while continually paying more and more for essentials like gas and electricity because the government of the day, backed by the Public Sector Unions (the majority of whom have been strangely immune to these economic realities) has seen fit to squander their tax dollars in an effort to keep power, or to fund power generation models that are currently economically unsustainable in this marketplace.
How many guys on the line in Oshawa would qualify for the Sunshine List? Tell me that, and then get back to me about the "common" worker.
It used to be that the Public Sector worker accepted the trade off of better job security for slightly lower wages and benefits. Somewhere along the way (hello OPSEU, ETFO, etc.) that compact with the taxpayer went by the wayside.
There is a reason that a schlub like Hudak is starting to resonate with voters. The "common" taxpayer is getting fed up with the cozy relationship that has existed for over a decade between the Public Sector Unions and their alleged bosses. The government is no longer seen as looking out for "our" interests any more. The fact that the Unions have become so brazen in their support is just another factor leading to the coming backlash.
It may not happen in this particular election, but it IS coming. The day of reckoning is coming, and the longer it is delayed, the worse that reckoning will be.
Milo
You want to talk about a disgrace? When was the last time the Government in this Province said "no" in ANY serious fashion to their Union backers? Sure there was McGuinty's last hurrah, that put us into a Minority Parliament, but look how fast Wynne kissed and made up after she took the reins.
The Government, once elected, is supposed to represent ALL of the people, not just the ones who voted for them.
THAT IS THE DISGRACE.
kwsteve
So you don't support the OPP UNION? You don't think they should be making the wages that they are? I happen to agree with you, insofar as they seem to be immune from the vitriolic attacks that are continuously directed at teachers and nurses.
But in my mind they are no more important than those other groups. Education and health care are the reasons we enjoy the quality of life we do here in Ontario, and overall in Canada, more so than the police.
The unions aren't the problem. See link in my previous post.
Milo
Since you asked, here is how I would prioritize Public Sector wages . . .
1. Teachers
2. Health Care workers (nurses, paramedics, etc.)
3. Fire Fighters
4. Police Officers
For the record, I would start Cops out at about $30k (if that), and Teachers at about $45k. The other two would be somewhere in the middle of those. I would like to see it take a heck of a lot longer to reach top salaries in ALL sectors of the Public Service, and I would dearly LOVE to see an independent audit of staffing, as I believe, like John Tory does, that the problem lies in a bloated middle management in ALL areas of government.
And I am sorry but the Unions ARE a problem, particularly as their is no incentive for them to reach a settlement in any negotiation. They can go to arbitration every time and, based on the rules the Arbitrator is bound by currently, they will win virtually every time. This is because, unlike the Private Sector, the Arbitrator cannot truly consider "the Employer's ability to pay" because the Government can always raise taxes, theoretically indefinitely. THAT is a problem.
Either change the rules of arbitration, or bust the Unions. There is no other way to safeguard the Public purse from exorbitant demands or compliant Leadership.
I have no issue with Private sector Unions, but Public Sector Unions are anathema to good stewardship over Public funds.
Milo
And the reason the Teachers and the Nurses get so much grief is the obvious "one hand washing the other" nature of their relationships with the current Government.
My daughter, unprovoked, has this week told of two separate teachers at her school who have taken classroom time to urge their students to speak to their parents about whom to support in next weeks vote and why. It would be slightly less offensive if one of them were a Political Science course, but no such luck . . . Photography and English. That, to me, is just as problematic as those OPPA ads.
kwsteve
Fire fighters over cops? Really? There is less than one fire a month here in Kitchener. I know it's dangerous work but seriously, let's look at this objectively. When you spend 90% of your shifts sleeping, cooking, and watching tv do you really deserve $100K a year? We'll have to disagree there. I guess I'm more conservative than you.
kwsteve
Milo;376065 wroteAnd the reason the Teachers and the Nurses get so much grief is the obvious "one hand washing the other" nature of their relationships with the current Government.
My daughter, unprovoked, has this week told of two separate teachers at her school who have taken classroom time to urge their students to speak to their parents about whom to support in next weeks vote and why. It would be slightly less offensive if one of them were a Political Science course, but no such luck . . . Photography and English. That, to me, is just as problematic as those OPPA ads.
Your anecdotal evidence means a lot. It has changed my mind. ;)
Milo
kwsteve;376066 wroteFire fighters over cops? Really? There is less than one fire a month here in Kitchener. I know it's dangerous work but seriously, let's look at this objectively. When you spend 90% of your shifts sleeping, cooking, and watching tv do you really deserve $100K a year? We'll have to disagree there. I guess I'm more conservative than you.
For me it was a pick 'em. I went with the negative long term health effects that the Fire Fighters deal with over the unlikely possibility of getting killed or PTSD for the Cops.
I am good with switching them and feel that BOTH are drastically overpaid for the dangers they face overall.
Milo
And the anecdote was meant more as an example of the problem rather than to say it is rampant. I doubt that it is, but just as one bad Cop taints a Force, so to does one "bad" teacher.
Milo
It's funny because I used to be very "pro" police. Over time, as I have gotten older, and the Forces have become more insular, I have altered my stance. To me the Police have too much of an "us vs. them" mentality these days. Gone are the days of Officer Friendly . . . his attitude has been replaced by one of "my first duty is to go home after every shift". Well, quite frankly, no it isn't. And, if you want to look at it that way, expect to see a lighter pay packet.
Hobbes
and welcome to ever diminishing take home pay. :(
trigs
so happy PCs didn't win! tens of thousands of teachers (including myself and my gf) get to keep their jobs!
not very happy liberals have a majority though.
seriously, what is wrong with everyone? how can you not see that a left leaning government tries to help all people, rich or poor, while the more right you go the more the rich benefit. it's not rocket surgery here. (sorry milo. please feel free to tell me how wrong i am in this regard.)
pkrfce9
Oh dear
tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
trigs
pkrfce9;376376 wroteOh dear
tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
i'm curious and would be interested in a poker forum vote: PC vs libs vs NDP vs other. i'm under the impression that the majority on here lean to the right.
also, you'd have to provide your age as well because i'm under the impression that the older you are the more likely you think right wing is "good". is that true? anyone here 35 and under and a right winger?
BTW, i just want to clarify that i'm talking about the overall parties in general, not the specific party platforms and leaders currently. i'm aware that they are all liars and idiots. however, the overall parties each have overarching ideals and that's what i'm interested in discussing.
trigs
one more thing: for those of you who didn't vote or never vote, you can please refrain from giving us your opinion because you already chose to give up your voice. people who don't vote because they "hate all the parties and candidates" and/or "hate politics" can go live on a deserted island by themselves and then be free to do whatever they want. there's nothing worse than a person who bitches from the sidelines saying they have all the answers but refuses to participate.
trigs
another question that just came to mind. in reference to legalizing poker, online poker, opening poker rooms, etc. - don't you think that a left leaning government would be more open to those ideas? i mean, gambling is a sin and the righties don't like sinners.
trigs
sorry, i'm bored at work and trying to occupy my time. feel free to ignore my stupidity.