Live Tourney Flop Play

Colin408

Blinds are 500/1000 I'm sitting at 20k(About 7th out of 20) Button is sitting at 30k.Top 8 get paid.

Me:Im sitting to the right of the button with JJ and raise to 3000.
Button:He has been a conservative player and hadn't played in a lot of hands lately.Played him earlier in a different tourney and he was playing the same way. Anyways he calls the 3000 and the Blinds Fold.

FLOP comes 9JK of spades.

Me: I bet 2500
Button: Re raises to 9000
Me:Fold

I ended up winning this tournament but I still think I made the wrong decision on that hand.

What do you guys think?

sn1perb0y

I think you should jam pre with 20bbs with jj.. if you want to raise, min raise (2x) is better.. lets say you x3 and board is AK4, its hard to continue and uve wasted an extra bb that accomplishes as much as 2x does.. when you hit on this wet board,I think you have to bet bigger on flop around 70%.. he could of called with KT and raise here i think you should of went with it and jammed the flop..

KK is very unlikely since he would probably 3 bet with it.. Also i don't think he would raise with nuts QT since he wouldn't want you to fold...

Colin408

About five minutes after the hand happened, I was sure that I made the wrong decision...

I agree that I should have pushed all-in when he re-raised me.

EDIT: Winning the tournament helped keep this hand off my mind for a while. If I would have lost, I would have been going OCD over this hand lol.

Bfillmaff

Ya man, with 20 BB and a flopped set, the only question is how to go about getting all of the money in!

But hey, seems like it worked out for you - cheap lessons are great!

Colin408

Yeah that's how I seen it as well. At the moment I was scared of him flopping a flush or straight, especially since he was playing really conservative. Then after the hand I knew he most likely didn't have either and I should have just shoved in.

Like you said its a good cheap lesson!

hiphopopotamus

Min raise pre flop and jam over the flop raise. Don't open ship 20bb unless you're terrified of post-flop play.

Wetts1012

You should never jam pre here.

You should also never, ever fold here.

sn1perb0y

hiphopopotamus;367922 wroteMin raise pre flop and jam over the flop raise. Don't open ship 20bb unless you're terrified of post-flop play.

Wetts1012;367931 wroteYou should never jam pre here.

You should also never, ever fold here.

Not disagreeing, but may i know the reasoning behind not ever jamming here?

GTA Poker

You need to put him on a range... Not on a single hand. And realise that unless he has kk which is almost impossible in this hand that you are 40% vs the flopped nuts.

Wetts1012

sn1perb0y;367933 wroteNot disagreeing, but may i know the reasoning behind not ever jamming here?

Because live poker, especially small home games have way different dynamics than online.

1) Not as many people are calling perceived unex shove ranges live. You jam 20 BB here and nobody calls you but dominating hands. Bad live players will fold AQ in this spot where they snap you off online.

2) Were not looking for a quick way out. We're looking to get money in. Minraising allows somebody to spaz out. Shoving eliminates the only way we have for someone to put it in worse.

3) 20BB in live poker is an absolute SHIT TON of chips. In these MTT where the average FT stack is 10-12BB you often have FE with even 6-7BB.

sn1perb0y

I'm thinking of the possibilities of jamming here because if someone has a pocket pair 44s+ and AT+ would call vs co range from button,sb or bb having 10-20bbs left. no?

Me personally I do both depending on my image and the stack sizes of players after me..

Thank you for the insight though, i really need to adjust while playing live and i'm still terrible online anyway :P

Bfillmaff

sn1perb0y;367948 wroteI'm thinking of the possibilities of jamming here because if someone has a pocket pair 44s+ and AT+ would call vs co range from button,sb or bb having 10-20bbs left. no?

I think its optimistic to think a 20bb shove gets called by 44+ or A10, and the small chance of it happening is trumped by the 3 points Wetts made above.

Wetts1012

sn1perb0y;367948 wroteI'm thinking of the possibilities of jamming here because if someone has a pocket pair 44s+ and AT+ would call vs co range from button,sb or bb having 10-20bbs left. no?

Me personally I do both depending on my image and the stack sizes of players after me..

Thank you for the insight though, i really need to adjust while playing live and i'm still terrible online anyway :P

Youre ranges are spot on for online play. You will get these calls (more often than live).

Im not saying you'll get 0% of this range calling live, but its not far over that, and certainly not from the conservative villain as described in the OP.

sn1perb0y

Wetts1012;367966 wroteYoure ranges are spot on for online play. You will get these calls (more often than live).

Im not saying you'll get 0% of this range calling live, but its not far over that, and certainly not from the conservative villain as described in the OP.

Thank you wetts, I respect your game a lot...

cheers

GTA Poker

sn1perb0y;367970 wroteThank you wetts, I respect your game a lot...

cheers

That's your first mistake...well second after folding a flopped set with 20bb

sn1perb0y

GTA Poker;367973 wroteThat's your first mistake...well second after folding a flopped set with 20bb

I don't fold flopped sets :D Stick to omaha GTA:tongue:

compuease

GTA Poker;367973 wroteThat's your first mistake...well second after folding a flopped set with 20bb

sn1perb0y;367974 wroteI don't fold flopped sets :D Stick to omaha GTA:tongue:

It mighta been Colin on that one.. ;)

GTA Poker

That too