mental poker - shifting your focus

trigs

i recently read an article by alec torelli called "4 steps to never going broke in poker". reading the title made me laugh and so i was interested in finding out this 'amazing' info (note the sarcasm).

the article was actually much better than i thought it was going to be, although i'm not sure if following the advice would really prevent you from going broke. however, there was one point he mentioned about shifting your focus on how you see your results in the game.

i've tried (and probably mostly failed) to try and think of poker as one long never ending session in order to avoid worrying about the small losses here and there and instead focus on the long term winning. i'm sure you guys have heard of this type of thinking before.

alec has a different spin on it and i think i really like it:

If someone asks how I am doing in poker, my answer is the same: I am even. The logic is this. Right now there is only the present moment and in this moment, there is no change. Whatever downswing I had or hand I lost is in the past.

How does one even interpret the phrase "I'm winning?" Does it refer to today? A week? A year? I can always be up or down. The answer is arbitrary and changes depending on how I define the time frame. Winning and losing only exists in your mind. In the present moment you are always even.

I know I am doing this correctly when I don't lament over folding for 10 hours. After all, if I am always even, then each hand is my first hand.

The only time I take a streak into consideration is when I feel that my opponents will play differently because of it.

i think i really like that idea and way of thinking. what do you guys think?

The Prophet 22

Sounds like a degenerate gambler who justifies getting money from where ever he can to get his fix in; believing one day things will turn around and he will make the "big score."

Hope can be dangerous for some people.

trigs

The Prophet 22;365801 wroteSounds like a degenerate gambler who justifies getting money from where ever he can to get his fix in; believing one day things will turn around and he will make the "big score."

Hope can be dangerous for some people.

really? yeah, i guess i can see that if the guy has been losing constantly and has never been a winning player but he just continues to ignore that fact and consider himself even all the time. obviously you still have to consider your overall wins/losses at some point (for example, when you're reloading your account).

The Prophet 22

$14 Million In Full Tilt Poker Losses For Gus Hansen Danish Player Sinks Further Into Unbelievable Hole by Brian Pempus | Published: Nov 08, 2013

$14 Million In Full Tilt Poker Losses For Gus Hansen

An example of a pro who believes he is even. It is staggering to say the least.

wildbill7145

The Prophet 22;365835 wrote$14 Million In Full Tilt Poker Losses For Gus Hansen Danish Player Sinks Further Into Unbelievable Hole by Brian Pempus | Published: Nov 08, 2013

$14 Million In Full Tilt Poker Losses For Gus Hansen

An example of a pro who believes he is even. It is staggering to say the least.

Wow, not much can make me feel better about my poker game but this certainly helps.

The Prophet 22

-$16 Million Now For Gus Hansen On Full Tilt Poker

-$16 Million Now For Gus Hansen On Full Tilt Poker
Poker Pro Reaches Lowest Point Ever On Software
by Brian Pempus | Published: Jan 21, 2014 | E-mail Author

I don't think Gus is ever going to get even on Full Tilt.

Can we agree the author who wrote the original article is full of crap?

trigs

The Prophet 22;368227 wroteCan we agree the author who wrote the original article is full of crap?

i'm sorry, but no.

first, i need more explanation on how the original article's theory of mentality relates to gus specifically (since i have no idea what gus' mentality is in reference to this aspect - maybe he always plays like he's stuck and needs to chase? idk). second, i'd imagine that to prove your point you'd need more than one example. can i cite how negreanu killed everyone last year and won millions to prove that the OP article is in fact true? i'd think not.

The Prophet 22

trigs;368228 wrote can i cite how negreanu killed everyone last year and won millions to prove that the OP article is in fact true? i'd think not. You are right. He is up not even! (bold mine)

The 4 Steps To Never Going Broke in Poker | PokerNews

I found the original article from whence you wrote about.

2) SHIFT THE FOCUS

If someone asks how I am doing in poker, my answer is the same: I am even. The logic is this. Right now there is only the present moment and in this moment, there is no change. Whatever downswing I had or hand I lost is in the past.

How does one even interpret the phrase "I'm winning?" Does it refer to today? A week? A year? I can always be up or down. The answer is arbitrary and changes depending on how I define the time frame. Winning and losing only exists in your mind. In the present moment you are always even.

I know I am doing this correctly when I don't lament over folding for 10 hours. After all, if I am always even, then each hand is my first hand.

The only time I take a streak into consideration is when I feel that my opponents will play differently because of it.

I understand what he is trying to say but practically speaking it's not the case. At some point there is a reality to the situation. Money determines where you are at during any game. If I buy in for 500.00 lose it and buy in again for 500.00 I am not even, I am down 500.00 or in the game for 1000.00. After every hand that is played, you are either up or down and the chips in front you determine which it is. After every hand is played you have a decision to make. You can leave up, if you are above the original buy in or you leave down the original buy in.

One can choose to forget about the money while playing but the reality doesn't change. You are up or down after every hand played.

I know you are the philosophy guy, but you also have to be aware of the realist side of poker. I believe to many people with this guy's philosophy tend to be on the losing side and it is a dangerous point to be making to impressionable people, especially young males who blow their tuition to cover a down swing because they think they are even while they try for the big score.

Prophet22

PS I am surprised this thread hasn't generated more discussion.

trigs

The Prophet 22;368351 wroteI understand what he is trying to say but practically speaking it's not the case. At some point there is a reality to the situation. Money determines where you are at during any game. If I buy in for 500.00 lose it and buy in again for 500.00 I am not even, I am down 500.00 or in the game for 1000.00. After every hand that is played, you are either up or down and the chips in front you determine which it is. After every hand is played you have a decision to make. You can leave up, if you are above the original buy in or you leave down the original buy in.

One can choose to forget about the money while playing but the reality doesn't change. You are up or down after every hand played.

I know you are the philosophy guy, but you also have to be aware of the realist side of poker. I believe to many people with this guy's philosophy tend to be on the losing side and it is a dangerous point to be making to impressionable people, especially young males who blow their tuition to cover a down swing because they think they are even while they try for the big score.

Prophet22

PS I am surprised this thread hasn't generated more discussion.

(thread hasn't generated more discussion because people don't like thinking too much. it's tiring and hurts the brain i've been told.)

i understand what your saying. he does not outright state that at some point you obviously have to consider how much you've actually lost (or won), which obviously you should be doing every once in a while at least. however, you shouldn't be thinking about that in general though, and especially not while playing.

i get it though. obviously a consistently losing player could use this type of argument to keep falling further in the red. however, i'd argue that they are manipulating the theory and not understanding it properly.

djgolfcan

From everything I've heard from poker professionals, you need to have a healthy disregard for money to play optimally. If you think that this pot is the amount of your next car payment, you are doomed.
For the rest of us, who play for fun, or to see how good we can get, you have to be realistic in how much you are willing to risk. And, as the article states, don't focus on how much up or down you are, live within your means and live in the present.

trigs

The Prophet 22;368227 wrote-$16 Million Now For Gus Hansen On Full Tilt Poker

-$16 Million Now For Gus Hansen On Full Tilt Poker
Poker Pro Reaches Lowest Point Ever On Software
by Brian Pempus | Published: Jan 21, 2014 | E-mail Author

I don't think Gus is ever going to get even on Full Tilt.

Can we agree the author who wrote the original article is full of crap?

gus is actually playing the meager $25-$50 limit right now so maybe he's finally learned his lesson and dropped down in stakes to rebuild. i doubt it though.

BlondeFish

Gus Hansen has become Poker's Biggest Loser at $20 million and counting. :o The loser failed to show up for the huge FTP HU promotion versus Viktor Blom and was replaced with PokerStars pro Jake Cody. PokerStars/FTP's excuse was the usual "due to unforeseen circumstances." :bs:

trigs;368474 wrotegus is actually playing the meager $25-$50 limit right now so maybe he's finally learned his lesson and dropped down in stakes to rebuild. i doubt it though.