Making the case for atheism...can it be done?

800OVER

Hitchens is so sweet. The guy is so much smarter than the competition sometimes it's not even fair.

The Prophet 22

Hitchen is a man who definately understood the arguments, better than most. (That being said, Nik, he isn't the most feared of the new atheist movement, not by a long shot.) I am sure he wishes he hadn't lead so many astray. The sad thing is he now knows the truth and there is nothing he can do about it. I have seen neary all his debates. He is a colourful personality with a quick wit that made him very likeable among his fellow atheist friends. Maybe that is why they haven't replaced him in the four horsemen. Now there is trinity three of the new atheist. Lead by Sam Harris at the top, with Dawkins and Dennett.

Why the tribute now Mark, his death was in December? Was he in the news for something?

DrTyore

Just came across it...

You do realize the statement of "sad thing is now he knows the truth and there is nothing he can do about it" is based solely on the god-squad view, and in fact, this fella's stated goal of fighting religiousness until the day he dies was actually accomplished, and he would have been super proud.

As many more should be.

Mark

Monoxide

DrTyore;379578 wrotehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR0GyYaeI-k

Mark

wow this guy is my new hero, such utter brilliance. its like hes debating against 6 year olds. didnt even know about this dude...

Milo

Hitchens was certainly entertaining . . .

The Prophet 22

In light of Mark's tribute to Mr. Hitchens?

Let me present:

Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that?s not a joke

DrTyore

I had a long thing typed out.. lost it when the page refreshed...

I may type it out again, but basically a lot of the referenced article reflects things we have addressed namely:

- We may be hardwired to believe in a greater power (of course, that way we're not paralyzed by the fear that everything that happens may just be out of our control)

- Religious groups had an evolutionary advantage as they behaved better and such (again, not a religious necessity, but a moral / empathetic one, also cults are pretty well behaved and grow up fast)

- We may be hard wired into developing a relationship with someone who isn't there (lends more credit to my statement that religion is a fairy tale for adults IMO)

- It goes into storytelling, and uses literature as a sign that mankind has this "rule" about how antagonists and protagonists get their punishment and rewards. I agree with this part wholly. Again though, aside from the earlier "random life" shit, people like to think that they will be rewarded not for their attributes / skills but their choices. Mathematically, the vast majority of people below say, "8 out of 10" when it comes to intelligence, attractiveness, physical prowess, wit, charm, wealth, shiny hair etc etc. Why wouldn't I want the main determinant in my stories to be not what makes up who I am, but how I choose to use how little / much I have?

Finally.. this makes me giggle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEGQ42RFfhg

Mark

800OVER

Brutal article....atheists who believe in God. More like theists who need a dictionary.

800OVER

Confused science writer claims that atheists might not exist « Why Evolution Is True

The rebuttal....

The Prophet 22

DrTyore;379611 wroteJust came across it...

You do realize the statement of "sad thing is now he knows the truth and there is nothing he can do about it" is based solely on the god-squad view, and in fact, this fella's stated goal of fighting religiousness until the day he dies was actually accomplished, and he would have been super proud.

As many more should be.

Mark

Why I allow myself to continue posting in this thread is beyond me. But it comments like this that just suck me back in.

If what you say is true and Hitchens spent his adult life fighting not just the religion but in fact spent a great deal of time arguing that there is in fact NO GOD. Then its not just the "God-squad" view. My statement holds true, he, Hitchens, is dead. He believed there was no afterlife, no judgement, no punishment, no God, no Jesus, no heaven, no hell. He spent years trying to convience people he was right.

All I said was he now knows the truth. Either he was right all this time. Or he was wrong all this time. The fact is he now knows the truth. And in fact there is nothing he can do now to convience anyone one way or the other.

Milo

The Prophet 22;380110 wroteWhy I allow myself to continue posting in this thread is beyond me.

Should have stopped right there, Brent . . . plus ca change, and all that. It is much akin to any other debate between two intractable positions. One side will not convince the other, no matter the quality of their argument.

Let it go . . . your ulcer will thank you. ;)

The Prophet 22

Milo;380111 wroteShould have stopped right there, Brent . . . plus ca change, and all that. It is much akin to any other debate between two intractable positions. One side will not convince the other, no matter the quality of their argument.

Let it go . . . your ulcer will thank you. ;)

I have know Ulcer, to worry about. In fact, even as heavy as I am, my doctor is amazed I don't have health issues - none!

I really thought that there were be something Mark and I could agree on after he made his tribute post. I thought I was stating the obvious. I thought I was being reasonable, I thought I was being logical. Hitchens spent over 25 years preaching his message “There is NO GOD” in fact, he is more dogmatic about this than Dawkins! All I was trying to do is point out Hitchens finally knows the truth either he was right or he was wrong and he will never be able to do anything about the position he took.
I have 2 more thoughts on this thread but I don’t know if I will get to them anytime soon.

DrTyore

The Prophet 22;380110 wrote All I said was he now knows the truth. Either he was right all this time. Or he was wrong all this time. The fact is he now knows the truth. And in fact there is nothing he can do now to convience anyone one way or the other.

False...

What you said is "The sad thing is he now knows the truth and there is nothing he can do about it". This suggests that there is something regretful in his passing, aside from the being dead bit, and he still has some form of consciousness / sentience to regret being unable to do anything about his situation he finds himself in.

It's at best plausible deniability.

Mark

Milo

And the circle is complete . . . care to go again? And, in honour of the CNE . . .

Do ya wanna go FASTER ?!?

800OVER

The Prophet 22;380110 wroteWhy I allow myself to continue posting in this thread is beyond me. But it comments like this that just suck me back in.

If what you say is true and Hitchens spent his adult life fighting not just the religion but in fact spent a great deal of time arguing that there is in fact NO GOD. Then its not just the "God-squad" view. My statement holds true, he, Hitchens, is dead. He believed there was no afterlife, no judgement, no punishment, no God, no Jesus, no heaven, no hell. He spent years trying to convience people he was right.

All I said was he now knows the truth. Either he was right all this time. Or he was wrong all this time. The fact is he now knows the truth. And in fact there is nothing he can do now to convience anyone one way or the other.

I'd say he doesn't know the truth at all. Cause after death if he's right there's no consciousness and he has no moment of realization after death. He died and ended at his death. There is no knowledge after death.

Jesus

All right bitches, I'm here.

/thread.

Hobbes

We just need Hitler now to /thread :D

800OVER

Jesus;380441 wroteAll right bitches, I'm here.

/thread.

All Hispanic members are welcome.

Kristy

Here's my problem with organized religion:

If the big guy put us here to discover and grow and return to him with a heart full of human experience and the real love that only free will can give...

Why does he have to be such an attention whore? We gotta thank him constantly, call him every night--even when we're tired, spend EVERY Sunday at his house listening to his buddies drone on about the same old shit. He demands a HUGE chunk of our money, and watches us 24-7...we can't even pee alone. He tells us what to eat, how to sleep, what to wear...he even dictates how to act while we menstruate.

God is pretty much an abusive boyfriend.

Milo

Kristy_Sea;380488 wroteHere's my problem with organized religion:

If the big guy put us here to discover and grow and return to him with a heart full of human experience and the real love that only free will can give...

Why does he have to be such an attention whore?

Says who?

We gotta thank him constantly, call him every night--even when we're tired, spend EVERY Sunday at his house listening to his buddies drone on about the same old shit.

You are confusing the strictures of different Faiths with what God wants from us.

He demands a HUGE chunk of our money, and watches us 24-7...we can't even pee alone.

Pretty sure god is busy with other things while I pee. Pretty sure he's busy when you pee, too.

He tells us what to eat, how to sleep, what to wear...he even dictates how to act while we menstruate.

Not in my Faith, he doesn't. Think you are talking about the folks down the street . . . and they're just silly. :D

God is pretty much an abusive boyfriend.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But, whatever . . . continue to believe as you will . . . or won't, as the case may be.

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