George Zimmerman...

The Prophet 22

DrTyore;356341 wroteI was going to say that I believe Brent had said all that needs to be said.

I guess I was on his ignore list since he never responded to anything I said... which suggests he either

Posted then +ignored me

Is avoiding response to my diatribe

Has had me on ignore since before this thread and just took potshots.

Regardless, I'm okay with all options.

Mark

Actually, I think you said you were drunk when you post so I figured no need to keep reading. :D I also know that you believe that my educational background means nothing/brings nothing of value to the discussion. Furthermore, you believe all people of a religious persuasion are not intelligent and have nothing to add to the discussion. See are CP discussion.
See are abortion discussion. (Still don't see how you think taking the life of a baby with a beating heart and active brain waves acceptable) Certainly didn't call you a murderous sob. I don't think I took any pot shots at you certainly not intentionally. Please forgive me if you see it differently. I never want to make these things personal, especially after my discussion with Nik during one thread a long time ago where I challenged him.

Today is my last day of teaching and I get a week off before starting up again August 1, so just saying good bye for a bit. If you ever want to have a serious discussion about why and how I came to my beliefs send me an email.

wilson.brent22@gmail.com

DrTyore

Milo;356343 wrote
Also, one could just as easily turn that around and state that a person of Faith cannot have an intelligent conversation with someone who refuses to believe anything that cannot be categorically demonstrated in front of their eyes.

Religion already did that...

The character "Doubting Thomas" (which by all accounts is a derogatory label), was the dude that said "Guys, nailed to a cross, stabbed, etc. He's dead man... let it go"

Then JC comes and goes all "bitch please" on him. Bust out all the explanations you want, but to this particular kid who went to church? Thomas was painted as a dick. So, the idea of religion's brainwashing effects in this regard kinda already covers your statement.

Mark

DrTyore

The Prophet 22;356353 wroteActually, I think you said you were drunk when you post so I figured no need to keep reading. :D I also know that you believe that my educational background means nothing/brings nothing of value to the discussion. Furthermore, you believe all people of a religious persuasion are not intelligent and have nothing to add to the discussion. See are CP discussion.
See are abortion discussion. (Still don't see how you think taking the life of a baby with a beating heart and active brain waves acceptable) Certainly didn't call you a murderous sob. I don't think I took any pot shots at you certainly not intentionally. Please forgive me if you see it differently. I never want to make these things personal, especially after my discussion with Nik during one thread a long time ago where I challenged him.

Wait, what? (P.S. > I don't know how to multiquote)

From post #72

"Mark wants to talk about how smart he is and how dumb others are.."

"You can call me naive, Mark calls me dumb and that's ok, I have been called worst,"

You think I am certifiable nuts (I won't use the word Mark

I never, in this thread, mentioned measuring my own intelligence against others, I was discussing the GZ trial.

I can not remember ever calling YOU dumb, I don't usually fire directly at people, and almost never initially. Do I think people ARE dumb? Yes... myself included.

The third one, isn't much of a shot, but why bring me up yet again?

Today is my last day of teaching and I get a week off before starting up again August 1, so just saying good bye for a bit. If you ever want to have a serious discussion about why and how I came to my beliefs send me an email.

wilson.brent22@gmail.com

See bolded above, but I conceded this

I didn't mean to suggest that the 1/2 of people on the planet below average intelligence meant that all the religious lot were the unintelligent ones. That as well doesn't make sense mathematically.

As for the last bit there, Brent, I have almost never found any interest in the "why and how" people came to their particular beliefs, and promise you I don't want to have that discussion.

Mark

Milo

DrTyore;356355 wroteReligion already did that...

The character "Doubting Thomas" (which by all accounts is a derogatory label), was the dude that said "Guys, nailed to a cross, stabbed, etc. He's dead man... let it go"

Then JC comes and goes all "bitch please" on him. Bust out all the explanations you want, but to this particular kid who went to church? Thomas was painted as a dick. So, the idea of religion's brainwashing effects in this regard kinda already covers your statement.

Mark

You misunderstand or are misinterpreting the whole "doubting Thomas" scene. Rather than painting Thomas as a "dick" the situation is used by Catholics as a means of encouraging physical experience (pilgrimage for example) as a means of strengthening their Faith. Yes, Jesus says that those who accept Him without physical proof are blessed, but that is only because their Faith is stronger. The skeptic is not a "dick", otherwise, why would Jesus make the point of appearing to Thomas at all? He shows his love for Thomas by giving him what he (Thomas) needs to solidify his Faith in God.

And belittling people of Faith as being "brainwashed" is ridiculous.

GTA Poker

Milo;356364 wrote
And belittling people of Faith as being "brainwashed" is ridiculous.

What do you call forcing a child to listen to the teachings of a specific religion once a week or more before he has the ability to form his own independent thoughts and opinions? Not to mention living with parents that may be cramming the same crap into their heads on a daily basis. Could there be a better example or brainwashing short of strapping a child to a chair and forcing him to learn what you choose him to believe?

Is it just a coincidence that most "people of faith" have the same religion as their parents? Shouldn't something as important as a religion, the supposed guiding principles in these peoples lives, be left for a person to decide once they are old enough to have had their own experiences and to have formed their own opinions?

trigs

Milo;356334 wroteWould not play for me . . .

try getting the add-on for google or firefox called media hint. that should help.

trigs

Milo;356329 wroteJust to stir things a little . . . and avoiding the Old Testament altogether . . . do you believe that Jesus Christ existed?

i think i read about an actual historical figure that was named jesus but i don't think it was the son of god and he performed miracles and stuff.

as far as the mythical story of jesus, i think catholics/christians stole that resurrection story from many other religions.

Milo

GTA Poker;356366 wroteWhat do you call forcing a child to listen to the teachings of a specific religion once a week or more before he has the ability to form his own independent thoughts and opinions? Not to mention living with parents that may be cramming the same crap into their heads on a daily basis. Could there be a better example or brainwashing short of strapping a child to a chair and forcing him to learn what you choose him to believe?

It's called raising your child in the culture and Faith that he or she was born into. Are you seriously advocating that parents should not be allowed to impart ANYTHING to their children until they can make decisions for themselves? Or are you saying they should be taken away at birth so the Government can raise them properly?

Is it just a coincidence that most "people of faith" have the same religion as their parents? Shouldn't something as important as a religion, the supposed guiding principles in these peoples lives, be left for a person to decide once they are old enough to have had their own experiences and to have formed their own opinions?

speaking only from my experience, I think that some of the most devout Catholics I have met are actually converts from other denominations. One of the most devout I know of was born into a Jewish family and converted in his twenties. I myself, was raised Catholic, left the Church, but find myself edging closer to a return.

Milo

trigs;356369 wrotei think i read about an actual historical figure that was named jesus but i don't think it was the son of god and he performed miracles and stuff.

So we agree that the man known as Jesus of Nazareth (referred to by Christians as Jesus Christ) did actually exist as an historical figure.

as far as the mythical story of jesus, i think catholics/christians stole that resurrection story from many other religions.

Really? How do you explain the many historical references to Jesus, by both followers and skeptics, that mention the belief in his divinity? How do you explain that so many of his disciples were martyred under excruciatingly painful circumstances because they refused to recant their belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God? Surely one such follower would have said, "meh, I believe, but I believe in saving my ass more."

JohnnieH

Milo;356384 wrote but find myself edging closer to a return.

Studying for The Final Exam, eh?

Milo

I don't know . . . it has been a strange journey, though. I was out of the Faith as soon as I turned 18. Never looked back. Went to Church for family occasions (weddings funerals) and that was it. Never took it seriously. But after my epiphany, I have mad a slow and gradual course correction in my life. I do not think I am quite ready to re-embrace the Catholic Church, but I know that I cannot continue to think and act as I once did when it comes to my belief in God.

Shouldn't you be packing?

trigs

Milo;356385 wroteReally? How do you explain the many historical references to Jesus, by both followers and skeptics, that mention the belief in his divinity? How do you explain that so many of his disciples were martyred under excruciatingly painful circumstances because they refused to recant their belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God? Surely one such follower would have said, "meh, I believe, but I believe in saving my ass more."

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse

not the best link but i'm lazy today after shoveling tons of gravel into my backyard.

trigs

Milo;356387 wroteI don't know . . . it has been a strange journey, though. I was out of the Faith as soon as I turned 18. Never looked back. Went to Church for family occasions (weddings funerals) and that was it. Never took it seriously. But after my epiphany, I have mad a slow and gradual course correction in my life. I do not think I am quite ready to re-embrace the Catholic Church, but I know that I cannot continue to think and act as I once did when it comes to my belief in God.

Shouldn't you be packing?

i was raised catholic but never really fully understood it as a kid. just kind of took it for granted. figured everyone believed in the big flying spaghetti monster in the sky. as soon as i started questioning things (idk like age 8) i started asking questions that religious people didn't like to hear. got kicked out of sunday school for asking too many questions (they kindly asked my parents to keep me out until i had a stronger belief in my faith is how they put it). used to get physically ill during sunday mass every week until the point where my parents finally said i didn't have to go anymore if i didn't want to. grew up some more and pretty much felt like i had to critically analyze everything around me (actually i probably do this too much and should relax a bit more), but here i am now.

my big beef with religion and god is the complete blind faith thing. i mean, god has spoken to people before. jesus was here on earth hanging out with other dudes performing miracles and shit. there (allegedly) was actual evidence and eye witness accounts of god/jesus' existence in the past. however, now god is like, well fuck all you guys who weren't around 2000 years ago. you get shit for proof of my existence. sucks to be you for being born when you were. just believe in me or burn in hell. your choice dipshits. imho, god is kind of a douche.

Milo

Urm . . . yeah. Difference is, Christ is part of the historical, as opposed to mythological, record. Also, Christ's apostles were foolish and generally ignorant? I think not. The 12 Apostles came from varied walks of life and, though they asked many questions of Christ, wouldn't you have questions for someone who claimed to be the Son of God?

Milo

trigs;356394 wrote
my big beef with religion and god is the complete blind faith thing. i mean, god has spoken to people before. jesus was here on earth hanging out with other dudes performing miracles and shit. there (allegedly) was actual evidence and eye witness accounts of god/jesus' existence in the past.

As I said, Jesus Christ is part of the historical record . . . there are accounts that mention him by name both from his Disciples (duh) and from non-believers as well. Roman historian Tacitus mentions Jesus and his crucifixion by Pilate. The record is plentiful . . .

however, now god is like, well fuck all you guys who weren't around 2000 years ago. you get shit for proof of my existence. sucks to be you for being born when you were. just believe in me or burn in hell. your choice dipshits. imho, god is kind of a douche.

Proof of God's existence? Look around you . . . A Catholic would tell you that all of Creation is as a result of God. You simply need to be strong in your Faith. As for Hell, well . . . this is where the notion of Free Will comes into play. Bear with me . . .

We have free will because God loves us. No one who loves another would ever "force" them to do anything they did not choose to do for themselves. A man who slaps his children is not a loving Father, nor is the husband who locks away his wife a loving husband. God wants us to return to Him, but we must choose to do so. Catholics believe that this life is merely prologue for the eternal life with God that follows our mortal one. Those who choose to reject an eternity with God have chosen Hell. But the key is that we must choose for ourselves. God does not send us to Hell, those who are too prideful to accept His love choose it for themselves.

Milo

Also . . . blind faith? Hardly. God wants us to look within ourselves and make a choice . . .

Christ said . . . "I am the way, the truth, and the life. no one can come to the Father except through Me"

It is a road map to eternal salvation. The only thing that remains is to decide, each of us for ourselves, which path we are going to choose, and whether we have the strength to walk it.

GTA Poker

Milo;356396 wroteProof of God's existence? Look around you . . . A Catholic would tell you that all of Creation is as a result of God. You simply need to be strong in your Faith. As for Hell, well . . . this is where the notion of Free Will comes into play. Bear with me . . .

We have free will because God loves us. No one who loves another would ever "force" them to do anything they did not choose to do for themselves. A man who slaps his children is not a loving Father, nor is the husband who locks away his wife a loving husband. God wants us to return to Him, but we must choose to do so. Catholics believe that this life is merely prologue for the eternal life with God that follows our mortal one. Those who choose to reject an eternity with God have chosen Hell. But the key is that we must choose for ourselves. God does not send us to Hell, those who are too prideful to accept His love choose it for themselves.

Creation. Nice.

Milo

I have always thought that God's creation is quite wondrous, actually. "Nice" just seems so understated.

Milo

DrTyore;356024 wroteMath..

<7billion people on earth currently....

Math says of those 7ish billion people, 1/2 are sub-average intelligence..

Seems like about 3.5-4 billion people are kinda fucknuts..

:)

Mark

Wanted to get back to this for a second . . .

Wouldn't the actual results show that the vast majority of folks were closer to the middle of that bell curve? Lets say 10-15% were fucknuts while an equal 10-15% were really smart, and the remaining 70-80% would be the mundanes.

That seems more like how it would spread out, no? So, of your population of 7 billion, we're actually only talking about a max. of a little over a billion.

DrTyore

Milo;356404 wroteWanted to get back to this for a second . . .

Wouldn't the actual results show that the vast majority of folks were closer to the middle of that bell curve? Lets say 10-15% were fucknuts while an equal 10-15% were really smart, and the remaining 70-80% would be the mundanes.

That seems more like how it would spread out, no? So, of your population of 7 billion, we're actually only talking about a max. of a little over a billion.

Average, by definition, is the middle point of a spectrum. So if there are 7 billion people, roughly 1/2 of them are below average. You're talking about standard deviation and outliers.

Mark

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