NL200 - Value Extraction

masterplan

Hey guys, so I found myself in an interesting spot the other night and am curious what other people do here.

1/2, Yellowhead Casino, 3-4 regs on the table, and 2 known fish.

I am OTB with roughly $1100, it's still at 2 and comes around to me with 77; I go up to 5, and get 6 callers. Both fish, and two of the regs.
Pot $30: Flop - 5h 7c 8c
Check check bet $20 folded to me, I reraise to $50, folded, MP (roughly $600 behind) calls. MP is a solid reg, plays pretty standard, known to fish draws if getting "the right odds" (though I don't think she really understands what that means.)
Pot: $130 (heads up): Turn: 7d (5h 7c 8c 7d)
She checks, I bet $75. She tanks for maybe 30-45 seconds and calls.
Pot: $280 (heads up): River: 3c (5h 7c 8c 7d)
She checks, I bet $200. She folds.

Is my bet too big here? Should I be betting smaller?
Relevant: I put her on the flush draw after her hesitant call on the turn, and the flush got there on the river.

Richard~

its a fine balance and really hard to say. I probably go smaller on the river since if villain doesn't have flush it will be really hard to call any bet at all let alone a big one.

Problem is kinda that a big bet will make you rep the flush to villain so they may fold out a lot of hands so it's kinda the equation of the value you lose when villain has a flush and you don't bet big vs the times that the villain doesn't have a flush and you bet big and get a fold

GTA Poker

First, raising to 5 pre is retarded -- why are you min raising? Try and think of the purpose of your raise. With those stacks I am raising to 15 in that spot at a passive table and calling at an aggressive table (YHead 1/2 is almost never aggressive so I am usually raising to 15 unless there is an EP player who I know limp reraises monsters). I want a chance to play for stacks if I hit a set and raising to 5 makes it very difficult to do so.

River, I either bet $130ish or shove depending on my opponent, my table image, and the range of hands I have her on.

Love those super soft YHead games. The regs there are horrid.

masterplan

GTA Poker;346176 wroteFirst, raising to 5 pre is retarded -- why are you min raising? Try and think of the purpose of your raise. With those stacks I am raising to 15 in that spot at a passive table and calling at an aggressive table (YHead 1/2 is almost never aggressive so I am usually raising to 15 unless there is an EP player who I know limp reraises monsters). I want a chance to play for stacks if I hit a set and raising to 5 makes it very difficult to do so.

River, I either bet $130ish or shove depending on my opponent, my table image, and the range of hands I have her on.

Love those super soft YHead games. The regs there are horrid.

I'm raising to 5 because I want callers, going to 15 (which I had done in previous hands) was getting 0 action, and 12 was getting 1-2 callers. The table was playing unreasonably tight preflop, which is uncharacteristic of YHead, but there were three women at the table (not to stereotype, but in my experience, specifically at YHead, the women tend to play a lot more tight) and two big stacks that seemed like they were trying to protect their stack too much.

djgolfcan

While I understand what GTA is saying, I like limping or min raising small pocket pairs to induce more callers. If I hit a set, there is more of a chance of getting paid by one of the other players, than if only 1 or 2 call.

For example: I have 5-5 and limp UTG, 8 callers, flop is K-9-5, chances are good that someone hit that flop with a King and I can get three streets of value.

GTA Poker

djgolfcan;346189 wroteWhile I understand what GTA is saying, I like limping or min raising small pocket pairs to induce more callers. If I hit a set, there is more of a chance of getting paid by one of the other players, than if only 1 or 2 call.

For example: I have 5-5 and limp UTG, 8 callers, flop is K-9-5, chances are good that someone hit that flop with a King and I can get three streets of value.

Yes, but if you minraise in LP and you get reraised large by an EP player scared of playing AA or KK post-flop then you are only gaining very minor value when you hit a set but are risking not being able to play the hand at all.

Limping with small pairs in EP is fine, I still raise if deep enough. I rarely open limp in any deep game. If you are scaling your bet sizes in relation to hand strength you will get exploited by good players...fortunately, there aren't many around.

livepokeredmontonftw

Preflop, I am a fan of limping along altho if I did raise I would raise more.
Flop, I am raising bigger..to like $70ish here.
Turn, AP fine
River, how much does she have behind? Your post says you have $1,100 so am I to assume that she covers? I would probaly bet slightly less but I dont think your bet size is a big mistake or anything,

Jacen299

GTA Poker;346176 wroteFirst, raising to 5 pre is retarded.

Your ability to answer the question is retarded. No one asked you to critique his play pre flop.
His play got him in a great position. Why not just say well played.

Easy to say after the fact, but I think I bet a little less on river 125.

DrTyore

Jacen299;346252 wroteYour ability to answer the question is retarded. No one asked you to critique his play pre flop.
His play got him in a great position. Why not just say well played.

Easy to say after the fact, but I think I bet a little less on river 125.

Because it wasn't well played. When you raise, you do so for several reasons, including thinking you're ahead - which is what I assume he was thinking in this scenario. In that case, you want to raise for maximum value (see - title of thread), and by his own admission, 15 was 0 callers, but 12 was 1-2. I'll take 1-2 callers at $12 ($36 pot) vs 6 callers at $5 ($35 pot). And that's not even accounting for the fact that 77 will win against two players a lot more than against 6.

Now that math is dealt with, GTA goes on to explain his reasoning and logic, which is an excellent way to answer a question. Your selective quoting and clear character assassination is a vastly inferior contribution to this thread. Speaking of this thread, it's in the NL /PLH area, which literally states is for the discussion of NL / PL strategy. Which is what GTA did.

Mark

GTA Poker

Jacen299;346252 wroteYour ability to answer the question is retarded. No one asked you to critique his play pre flop.
His play got him in a great position. Why not just say well played.

Easy to say after the fact, but I think I bet a little less on river 125.

Philli?

Jacen299

DrTyore;346256 wroteBecause it wasn't well played. When you raise, you do so for several reasons, including thinking you're ahead - which is what I assume he was thinking in this scenario. In that case, you want to raise for maximum value (see - title of thread), and by his own admission, 15 was 0 callers, but 12 was 1-2. I'll take 1-2 callers at $12 ($36 pot) vs 6 callers at $5 ($35 pot). And that's not even accounting for the fact that 77 will win against two players a lot more than against 6.

Now that math is dealt with, GTA goes on to explain his reasoning and logic, which is an excellent way to answer a question. Your selective quoting and clear character assassination is a vastly inferior contribution to this thread. Speaking of this thread, it's in the NL /PLH area, which literally states is for the discussion of NL / PL strategy. Which is what GTA did.

Mark

This is precisely what annoys me of this site. You nits think you have all the answers to poker. Even when no question to the answer given was asked. Bottom line he was at the table and his strategy of 5 worked, very well. Perhaps a miracle.
Character assassination my ass. F u.
My point is he calls him retarded, talking about part of the hand he did not enquire on. I agree play against 2 players rather then 6 is way better regardless of what pocket pair you have. But there is better ways to express that then name calling. Am I wrong?

Jacen299

GTA Poker;346262 wrotePhilli?

Pitts?

compuease

GTA Poker;346176 wroteFirst, raising to 5 pre is retarded --

Jacen299;346266 wrote My point is he calls him retarded,

Where did he call the poster retarded? He called the raise retarded.. Now I can see the points both ways and really depends on table dynamics..

compuease

Jacen299;346266 wroteThis is precisely what annoys me of this site. You nits think you have all the answers to poker.

You call GTA and DrTyore nits? lol, you have to get out more... Now me, perhaps a fair comment, but not most on here...;)

Jacen299

compuease;346272 wroteWhere did he call the poster retarded? He called the raise retarded.. Now I can see the points both ways and really depends on table dynamics..

Calling his move retarded equates to calling him retarded IMO.

Jacen299

compuease;346273 wroteYou call GTA and DrTyore nits? lol, you have to get out more... Now me, perhaps a fair comment, but not most on here...;)

Did I says nits? Revise to jackasses.

DrTyore

Jacen299;346277 wroteDid I says nits? Revise to jackasses.

Well this is probably accurate.

Mark

compuease

It's all Masterplans fault for starting this...;)

Jacen299

DrTyore;346278 wroteWell this is probably accurate.

Mark

This actually made me grin. And take a deep breathe. I'm good now. ;)

DrTyore

Jacen299;346281 wroteThis actually made me grin. And take a deep breathe. I'm good now. ;)

Just pump the break, get settled, find a nemesis, and you'll fit right in.

Mark