What is constituted as a check

Jacen299

Final table, 5 handed.

Chip leader UTG raises. UTG+1 calls. Button and blinds fold.

Flop comes whatever….
UTG clearly states “check”
UTG+1 pauses and says “check?” supposedly to UTG.
Then bets.

If I’m the UTG guy I’d be asking to see the turn as both players said the word check the question mark is not heard.

Thoughts?

wildbill7145

I'd say asking to see the turn would be kind of nitty, unless you were sure from previous experience the guy was totally unscrupulous. Could have worded it differently obviously by saying "Did you say check?", but I see this happening all the time.

Just my thoughts though.

JohnnieH

This is why I hate when people wear headphones at the table.

Tonychanman

I hate when that happens, especially when the intonation on the word "check" isn't even very clear. I know guys who do this almost every time if someone checks before them. Such a bad habit.

wildbill7145

I played at a game in Vancouver where the host said you had to also tap the table and say check. Then some bonehead couldn't get out of the habit of tapping the table continuously out of nervousness. (No it wasn't me.)

Milo

When in doubt, ask for a clarification. In the OP, ask the UTG+1 if he was checking, or asking UTG if he checked? Do not ALLOW ambiguity, and you will not be burned by it.

And +1 on the whole headphones thing.

Wetts1012

If you argue this as the UTG player then you're a dick.

UTG+1 clearly stated check as a question, as indicated in the original post.

The verbal rules and all that dont always apply in TDA as theres something that trumps all which is "The best and fairest interest of the game".

See this years WSOP main an Koroknai as an example.

Wetts1012

Worst case scenario is warning and action stands.

compuease

Definitely dick move on behalf of UTG if he/she argues that UTG+1 checked when he was just questioning UTG's check... As Wetts said, in best interest of the game, think integrity... Agreed warning should be given to UTG+1 to act clearly and in fact I've seen that happen a number of times at casino's.. sometimes by the dealer, sometimes even by other players..

Jacen299

Wetts1012;344869 wroteIf you argue this as the UTG player then you're a dick.

UTG+1 clearly stated check as a question, as indicated in the original post.

The verbal rules and all that dont always apply in TDA as theres something that trumps all which is "The best and fairest interest of the game".

See this years WSOP main an Koroknai as an example.

I didn't say that he clearly stated as a question. He had glasses on so hard to see facial expression. Utg didn't argue. He checked raised him all in and busted him with a seven outer on the river. +1 should of checked I guess :).
+1 is an experienced player. So his wording was surprising.

wildbill7145

Jacen299;344876 wroteI didn't say that he clearly stated as a question.

The question mark made me think he'd done so. Not being (or at least not trying) to be a dick, but that's how I read it.

[deleted]

I have zero integrity and would demand a ruling because I believe in purity in the game of pokerz

Jacen299

wildbill7145;344881 wroteThe question mark made me think he'd done so. Not being (or at least not trying) to be a dick, but that's how I read it.

Did you read the rest where I said the question mark is not heard?

wildbill7145

Well, so much for not being a dick.

I didn't clearly read your clearly poorly written sentence and kind of stopped reading when you said you'd ask to see the turn.

See post #7, and 9 in this thread. Others read it the same way I did.

Jacen299

wildbill7145;344899 wroteWell, so much for not being a dick.

I didn't clearly read your clearly poorly written sentence and kind of stopped reading when you said you'd ask to see the turn.

See post #7, and 9 in this thread. Others read it the same way I did.

Dick theme the thread all you want. Poorly written or not all the information is there. I guess I could of said he said "check" and meant it to be a question. How is anyone suppose to know its a question. Fact is he said check.
I also said it was final table.
Meaning it was ITM. They were at the bubble of the better prizes about to be determined. So the timing of the apparent free turn card could of been important for utg chip leader.

GTA Poker

OP needs ESL prior to elucidating others' failed attempts at communication

#PHILLINOCOKEPEPSI

Milo

costanza;344884 wroteI have zero integrity

Stunning personal insight, ITT. This is a "growth moment", sir . . . well done.

Jacen299

GTA Poker;344927 wroteOP needs ESL prior to elucidating others' failed attempts at communication

#PHILLINOCOKEPEPSI

I'm not sure what the difficulty is in reading the OP?

moose

Don't be stupid. If he said check with whatever intonation you can imagine, even if it sounded to you like CHECK with no other meaning and then he BETS, then clearly he was just trying to clarify if it was his turn or not. How dumb can you be? Did you call the TD and scream, he checked, then BET OUT OF TURN IN THE DARK?!!?!?!?!!? Seriously, WTF?

Richard~

moose;344963 wroteDon't be stupid. If he said check with whatever intonation you can imagine, even if it sounded to you like CHECK with no other meaning and then he BETS, then clearly he was just trying to clarify if it was his turn or not. How dumb can you be? Did you call the TD and scream, he checked then bet out of turn?!!?!?!?!!? Seriously, WTF?

even so, you can get an unintentional tell from the relief or reaction player one feels after hearing the word check behind him