15-25 bb

RWPKRPLR

I need some advice on how to play this range.

Typically in a MTT I tend to use the 15-25 BB range as my transition range. I play tight and wait for premiums and try to get them in pre against a open raiser. I do this so if I don't get any cards I will still have somewhat of a stack for the next level.

My general strategy is to look for spots to 3bet shove to give myself a chance to get back into deepstack play. Right now 3bet shove range against an unknown plr is TT+, AKo, AK. Against a plr I have info on, I adjust to their tendencies(loosen up a bit against LAG's and Stay with same range for TAG's). If it is folded to me I tend to try and play only in the HJ-BU positions trying to steal with ATC against very tight opponents. Against loose opponents I tend to be very selective with my Steals.

I feel like I'm loosing value by not adjusting my ranges properly against my opponents. So the advice I'm looking for is, what range should I be using to 3 bet shove against a LAG/TAG that opens in Mid to late position? and how should a better approach stealing against LAG and TAG in the blinds? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan

trigs

well, i'm no pro but...

my range for this is usually closer to 20BBs but 25BBs seems fine to me.
against lags my push range will probably be 77+ AQ+.
with 25 BBs i'll still look to open in MP. you seem a little too tight here imho.
i think i'll keep quiet about the stealing as i've yet to feel comfortable with that part of my game so far.

Richard~

hardest and easiest stack in to play in poker. With just over 20 Id say tro to get a raise fold through in some spots, with under 20 I'm basically just looking to reship stuff. I think it's really important to not just have a "reship range" but widen it tons if you think you can get a fold in a spot

actyper

What rich said, ur 3bet shove stack should not only be with good cards! You gotta mix in steals, and thinner value shoves

RWPKRPLR

trigs;340322 wrotewell, i'm no pro but...

my range for this is usually closer to 20BBs but 25BBs seems fine to me.
against lags my push range will probably be 77+ AQ+.
with 25 BBs i'll still look to open in MP. you seem a little too tight here imho.
i think i'll keep quiet about the stealing as i've yet to feel comfortable with that part of my game so far.

First off, thanks for the post...:)

The reason why I use 15-25bb as my transition stack is because the next level(s) will chop me down to short stack if i have nothing to play. IMO 20-25bb is a little to narrow for this.

Example:
Blinds: 50/100

MP - Villian :5000
BU - Hero: 2500

Villian raises 2x (200)
Hero 3bets 3x (600)
(From what I read and watched in videos, some top players suggest to ship anytime you have to use more than 20% of your stack pre)

So IMO anytime your 25BB or smaller you should go all in when 3betting.
And when I get to <15bb I'm looking to open ship, so that's why I came up with this range.

With your range it has a gap (15-20bb), so what are we doing here? it's not quite a short stack and not quite a mid stack.:)

And for my ranges, that's exactly what I open my 3 bet range to if my LAG opens in MP. I widen even more if he is opening in LP( 77+, AJ+, KQ) but I'm not sure if I should be opening more against LP LAG open raisers, or tightening up a bit against MP LAG open raisers. The reason I like to 3 bet shove with 15-25 is because your committing to much of your stack to be folding, 30BB+ is my min stack I can consider 3bet/folding.

As for OR, FLD I still like to do this and only do this in late position is because if I get flatted I'm usually IP post flop, giving me an edge. Also I say any two because if somone does 3bet me i can get away easy, or smash them if I have a big hand.

Richard~;340335 wrotehardest and easiest stack in to play in poker. With just over 20 Id say tro to get a raise fold through in some spots, with under 20 I'm basically just looking to reship stuff. I think it's really important to not just have a "reship range" but widen it tons if you think you can get a fold in a spot

Thx:). My 3bet range is just a standard for when i get moved to a table that i have no info and you say adjust it a ton if i think i can get fold, but how much do I change my range?

Let's say...
A LAG opens 2x in MP, He folds about 50% of the time to all ins.. What range should I ship with?

Also, how do you guys define stack sizes? (example: mine is 0-10 super short, 10-15 short stack,15-25 mid stack, 25-50 deep and 50+ super deep)
Now this could be wrong, but it seems to be working for me.

thx again

RWPKRPLR

actyper;340354 wroteWhat rich said, ur 3bet shove stack should not only be with good cards! You gotta mix in steals, and thinner value shoves

Can you please explain a little theory on thinner value shoves.???
thx

Jacen299

Richard~;340335 wrotehardest and easiest stack in to play in poker. With just over 20 Id say tro to get a raise fold through in some spots, with under 20 I'm basically just looking to reship stuff. I think it's really important to not just have a "reship range" but widen it tons if you think you can get a fold in a spot

What do you mean by reship?

Richard~

I mean jamming your whole stack over someone's standard open raise. It's most common to do as a semibluff between 15 and 20 BB's because if villain is opening a fair amount of hands and you dont have too many guys to go through behind you it's hard for villain to call you often enough to make you lose chips in the long run

there are a lot of considerations to when to reship such as table flow and also the more guys you have to act behind you, the more strength you represent to a "thinking" table so if your image is solid and you shove UTG+2 over an UTG+1 open for example you can sometimes get any player on the table to much AQ since it puts so much pressure on them.

TO touch a little bit more on the range given in the first post when I was a pokerpwnage member the pros talked a lot about how players would take a hand out of thin air, post it on the forum and ask "was this a good reship?" and they could almost never accurately tell. It's really important to have a range that differs depending on how much strength you think you'll give off and how you percieve the hand strength of the original raiser. It's much much less about your actual hand than the situation but with that said what you want to do is kinda say something like "he's opening a lot from the button here, I should reship my TOP 50% of hands from the SB" or maybe something like "I think this will look really strong and I think UTG is not just opening absolute monsters so I should reship ABOUT 20% of my hands here and instead of shoving my ace blockers I will take some aces out of my shoving range and put in some suited cards instead so that if I get called, I'll have a better chance to win the pot vs the hands HE WILL CALL ME WITH"

Hope some of that made sense

RWPKRPLR

Yes it did make sense, thank you. After you and ace posted I started to read theory on 2+2 and the poker bank. It went along with what you posted. I'm going to read some more and apply it in my game play tonight. Last night i applied it and it worked out for me couple times. Overall I'm going to refine my 3bet strategy in general, this should help out.

Jacen299

Richard~;340552 wroteI mean jamming your whole stack over someone's standard open raise. It's most common to do as a semibluff between 15 and 20 BB's because if villain is opening a fair amount of hands and you dont have too many guys to go through behind you it's hard for villain to call you often enough to make you lose chips in the long run

there are a lot of considerations to when to reship such as table flow and also the more guys you have to act behind you, the more strength you represent to a "thinking" table so if your image is solid and you shove UTG+2 over an UTG+1 open for example you can sometimes get any player on the table to much AQ since it puts so much pressure on them.

TO touch a little bit more on the range given in the first post when I was a pokerpwnage member the pros talked a lot about how players would take a hand out of thin air, post it on the forum and ask "was this a good reship?" and they could almost never accurately tell. It's really important to have a range that differs depending on how much strength you think you'll give off and how you percieve the hand strength of the original raiser. It's much much less about your actual hand than the situation but with that said what you want to do is kinda say something like "he's opening a lot from the button here, I should reship my TOP 50% of hands from the SB" or maybe something like "I think this will look really strong and I think UTG is not just opening absolute monsters so I should reship ABOUT 20% of my hands here and instead of shoving my ace blockers I will take some aces out of my shoving range and put in some suited cards instead so that if I get called, I'll have a better chance to win the pot vs the hands HE WILL CALL ME WITH"

Hope some of that made sense

Yes thwnks made sense. I know and understand the play. Just never heard it as re ship.