Flat for the overcall or shove on the river w nutz

SuitedPair

so, we get to the river and I have the nutz w/ two villains.

check, I bet 2/3, call then shove for half my stack. villain behind has about the same as me,

Do I,
1. shove over top to try and get the callers money in. he has something to call the first bet.

2. just flat, hoping for either an over call or shove from V2?

3. should I have bet out differently?

thx

PokerStars - $0.10 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: PokerTracker

BTN: $10.11
SB: $6.00
Hero (BB): $10.00
UTG: $17.26
UTG+1: $10.12
MP: $10.37
MP+1: $11.49
LP: $19.72
CO: $18.45

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 6d 5c

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.20, fold, SB calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.60, 3 players) 4s Ah 7d
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.40, SB calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.80, 3 players) 8h
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($1.80, 3 players) Qc
SB checks, Hero bets $1.29, CO calls $1.29, SB raises to $5.40 and is all-in, Hero raises to $9.40 and is all-in, fold ********decision point, good shove or no? spoiler in white.

Hero shows 6d 5c (Straight, Eight High) (Pre 15%, Flop 26%, Turn 77%)
SB shows 7h 7s (Three of a Kind, Sevens) (Pre 85%, Flop 74%, Turn 23%)
Hero wins $13.27

GTA Poker

god i hate players that try to trap whenever they have a made hand

djgolfcan

GTA Poker;331459 wrotegod i hate players that try to trap whenever they have a made hand

why ?

GTA Poker

because you make less money overall than betting your hands

SuitedPair

GTA Poker;331459 wrotegod i hate players that try to trap whenever they have a made hand

sweet. fuckin awesome even.

have any insight on the question?

GTA Poker

bet flop

bet turn and call shove ez game

as played shove river a call looks just as strong so you may as well try and get as many chips as possible

[deleted]

Gta is the best player on this site

always listen to what he says

he has solved the game of pokerz completely

every game, every structure, every facet

GTA Poker

costanza;331474 wroteGta is the best player on this site

always listen to what he says

he has solved the game of pokerz completely

every game, every structure, every facet

i didn't solve the break even not playing yet...u skooled me

[deleted]

I have some thoughts here. I think postflop we really have to be careful making flats with offsuit low cards, even if they are connected. You're 100bbs deep but only 60 with the small blind. Your getting around 6 to 1 on your money but we have to think about how we get paid in poker vs. bad players which is by playing aggressively in position and making solid value bets with strong hand.

Think of how many times you have to check fold the flop. You can't feel too good on boards like A63, AK5, 2KT, A24, etc.

You are really looking for flops like X47, X78, 55x etc. but with two low cards you just won't hit that often.

More importantly when the flop comes A56, A89, K67 and so on. You stand to lose a lot of money in the long run from reverse implied odds vs sets, bigger two pairs, and bigger straight draws. And from chasing draws.

Not saying you can't call pre, but you have to put it in the proper perspective because the .10 it costs to call might be costing you more in the long run.

I may occasionally lead out on this flop as its a hard board for anyone without an ace to hit. If our opponents have 2 face cards or even just a pair they are likely to insta muck. The trick is to make the bet big enough its believable, but small enough that it doesn't have to work every time (thats key). Now, the 'bonus' is if you get called then you are still semi bluffing to a draw. Check calling with two players might be okay, but if they are betting any turn which they often do, then your not getting the best price to see 1 card.

On the turn we have use the 'how do we make money in poker' mantra and we can see we need to bet vs loose passive players (which most random micro players are). Whenever action is on you ask yourself if you can bet for value. To answer that run all the worse hands through your head villains can call with. On "4s Ah 7d 8h" worse hands villains can call with include: two pair, flush draws, pairs, over pairs, open ended straight draws, gutshots, even broadway . If you don't bet for value here then you're not really ever getting value from any hands you get in this spot, which we need to offset our coolers etc.

On the river I think you can prob shove because co is not likely to call half his remain effective stack but not the other half. Just tank and shove.

philliivey

Holy shit this post is beautiful! :o

darbday;331476 wroteI have some thoughts here. I think postflop we really have to be careful making flats with offsuit low cards, even if they are connected. You're 100bbs deep but only 60 with the small blind. Your getting around 6 to 1 on your money but we have to think about how we get paid in poker vs. bad players which is by playing aggressively in position and making solid value bets with strong hand.

Think of how many times you have to check fold the flop. You can't feel too good on boards like A63, AK5, 2KT, A24, etc.

You are really looking for flops like X47, X78, 55x etc. but with two low cards you just won't hit that often.

More importantly when the flop comes A56, A89, K67 and so on. You stand to lose a lot of money in the long run from reverse implied odds vs sets, bigger two pairs, and bigger straight draws. And from chasing draws.

Not saying you can't call pre, but you have to put it in the proper perspective because the .10 it costs to call might be costing you more in the long run.

I may occasionally lead out on this flop as its a hard board for anyone without an ace to hit. If our opponents have 2 face cards or even just a pair they are likely to insta muck. The trick is to make the bet big enough its believable, but small enough that it doesn't have to work every time (thats key). Now, the 'bonus' is if you get called then you are still semi bluffing to a draw. Check calling with two players might be okay, but if they are betting any turn which they often do, then your not getting the best price to see 1 card.

On the turn we have use the 'how do we make money in poker' mantra and we can see we need to bet vs loose passive players (which most random micro players are). Whenever action is on you ask yourself if you can bet for value. To answer that run all the worse hands through your head villains can call with. On "4s Ah 7d 8h" worse hands villains can call with include: two pair, flush draws, pairs, over pairs, open ended straight draws, gutshots, even broadway . If you don't bet for value here then you're not really ever getting value from any hands you get in this spot, which we need to offset our coolers etc.

On the river I think you can prob shove because co is not likely to call half his remain effective stack but not the other half. Just tank and shove.

JimmyHo

got to bet the turn once you have the nuts; don't let other players CATCH UP, or at least make them pay to try. May just call on the river and hope one of the other players decides to call.

trigs

i really don't like to slowplay too much. i prefer to make opponents pay and increase the size of the pot when i have the best hand.

plus i run so bad that i hate giving free cards and then getting beat. tilts the shit out of me.

SuitedPair

It's funny. I've been letting the responses to this post stew in my head for a couple of weeks now and it really is quite a revelation. I wanted to know if the spot on the river could have been played better yet it seems I made a mistake at each decision point but the river. Hadn't considered it that way and that is scary.

Back to the drawing board. have to figure it all out from the beginning.

It's not just this hand, everything about my game points to this. In 18 mans I've been winning lately but in cash my graph looks like a shear drop off of K2.

Thanks all who responded. and good luck.