poker ethics?

trigs

so where did the notion of poker ethics come from? are poker ethics actually necessary? do they take away some of the challenge and fun in poker?

now i'm not suggesting that outright cheating such as collusion should be allowed, but why is it wrong for me to, for example, fake like i'm going to fold before it's my turn to act and then throw in a raise instead once the action comes to me?

i actually think that a table full of players trying to fuck with each other in non-cheating ways (which includes verbal comments as well) would make for good television. maybe general poker ethics could be in place for the majority of games/tournaments, but every once in a while they could have a group of players going into a game knowing full well that they are allowed to fuck with each other as much as possible to win. i'd want to watch that table for sure (especially if hellmuth was playing).

Muddguts

I think the shenanigans would get old real quick. How many times are you going to crack up seeing someone fake mucking their cards? Or how hard will you laugh when someone's says "I'm all.....out"?

trigs

Muddguts;331174 wroteI think the shenanigans would get old real quick. How many times are you going to crack up seeing someone fake mucking their cards? Or how hard will you laugh when someone's says "I'm all.....out"?

true, they might get old. i wasn't suggesting it for comedic value though (although i think it would/could be funny).

i'd be entertained by watching some of the best pull out all the stops to win no matter what. poker is a war, so why all the let's be nice to each other all the time stuff? many good players just pretend to be nice but are actually trying to slaughter you and take your shirt. i'm just suggesting a game that gets rid of the niceties and let's people act how they play.

also, i do think that such a game would be enjoyed more by the non-poker playing public.

Milo

If one accepts your "Poker is war" theme, then why would a wise General waste energy on silly things like "fake folds", etc. The wise General would instead be studying his opponents, and using his chips judiciously so that, when the final confrontation occurs, he will have already won.

trigs

how about a no holds barred cage match theme?

Wetts1012

Heres an ethics question I always struggle with.

Live players are bad, for the most part. So bad, that they insist on showing me their hand while in play.

I'd say this happens 1 out of every 3 live tournaments I play. I am an observant player, so I watch most action.

Its usually the player to my immediate left and they consistently expose their hand during play.

Do you mention it, or do you not?

My view: concealing the nature of your hand and how strong/weak it is is a part of the game. If you choose to blatantly disregard the fact that I have eyes, not my problem.

GTA Poker

I usually tell them the first time and maybe the second time...I dunno it depends on my mood I guess.

Could you see my cards from seat 9 when I was in 7 in Vegas?

Wetts1012

Yes, I chose to ship you pots over and over again.

GTA Poker

you are a kind soul

Wetts1012

GTA Poker;331231 wroteyou are a kind soul

GTA Poker

izrealchrist?

trigs

Wetts1012;331227 wroteHeres an ethics question I always struggle with.

Live players are bad, for the most part. So bad, that they insist on showing me their hand while in play.

I'd say this happens 1 out of every 3 live tournaments I play. I am an observant player, so I watch most action.

Its usually the player to my immediate left and they consistently expose their hand during play.

Do you mention it, or do you not?

My view: concealing the nature of your hand and how strong/weak it is is a part of the game. If you choose to blatantly disregard the fact that I have eyes, not my problem.

that's a good one. i probably would say something once but that's it.

SuitedPair

there is more to the ethics debate than what is enjoyable to see in a game. I don't think the game itself can be held in isolation but rather you need to look at the whole poker economy.

Large parts of what poker is about is based on trust and mutual respect,

BAPs
Loans,
Transfers of cash on one site for the same on another
side bets
and just whether or not you want to play a game with someone in particular at the table.

I've seen what I call douche bag moves at tables and once it happens I have no respect or trust for that person. I don't want to play with them at my table and would never even consider BAPing them or loaning them cash, taking a side bet, etc. I don't have any trust in them as a person. This is why I think poker ethics is absolutely paramount.

That being said, when I get together with friends and we have the beers flowing and one-upsmanship during a $5 game I'm all for slow rolling and fishing for info. I already know everyone there and everyone is on the same page.

IDK, jmho, tifwiw

fuck I love acronyms sometimes,

GTA Poker

ycomt

SuitedPair

GTA Poker;331387 wroteycomt

damn. not the image I had of you GTA......how bigz iz they? more than a handful?

jontm

Muddguts;331174 wroteI think the shenanigans would get old real quick. How many times are you going to crack up seeing someone fake mucking their cards? Or how hard will you laugh when someone's says "I'm all.....out"?

There was that great fold fake all in muck hand this summer at WSOP that cost guy 7k...great way to learn zero value in antics.

Table talk and angle shooting are two distinct ideas. One is ethical the other not so much...usually shitty players learn how to angle shoot, while good ones learn to listen and watch. Talking is such a shitty tell

I remember one player that has excellent game and excellent table talk heads up for a huge 75k difference between first and 2nd. Opponent equally skilled but a little less vocal. Prying by player ultimately led to him being leveled by player b. he makes correct fold if he shuts up and trusts gut.