Staking markups..?

compuease

With all of the popularity of staking now I'm wondering about markup. I can understand it for the very successful players but how much markup is fair.
5%-10%-25%? What is the max that would be fair? With the variance in MTT's it really is difficult to compute. Some say I'm doing the bap to reduce my average buyin and that's fine, but if they are also charging a stiff markup isn't that just double counting? By the time we add the markup, say 25% plus the 10% juice the site charges, that's more than a third rake. Can we ever really make anything long term at that rate?

[deleted]

compuease;309940 wroteWith all of the popularity of staking now I'm wondering about markup. I can understand it for the very successful players but how much markup is fair.
5%-10%-25%? What is the max that would be fair? With the variance in MTT's it really is difficult to compute. Some say I'm doing the bap to reduce my average buyin and that's fine, but if they are also charging a stiff markup isn't that just double counting? By the time we add the markup, say 25% plus the 10% juice the site charges, that's more than a third rake. Can we ever really make anything long term at that rate?

its so awesome that a mod posted this on april 1st.....thread of the year

Milo

My understanding is that the % markup is based on the Player's ROI. So a player like Vekked can ask a premium and likely find backers, whereas your truly would be greeted by crickets chirping if I were to offer a 25% DISCOUNT.

compuease

Milo;309945 wroteMy understanding is that the % markup is based on the Player's ROI. So a player like Vekked can ask a premium and likely find backers, whereas your truly would be greeted by crickets chirping if I were to offer a 25% DISCOUNT.

I might have to offer more of a discount, but this really is a serious question... Interested in what someone like Hobbes has to say... How big of an ROI would one have to have to get a 25% markup? Other than for funzies it really seems like that is extreme... Kinda like paying a big premium for investment advice....

wildbill7145

With so much bapping/staking going on here lately, I kind of feel like I'm at a horse track with no idea how to read the program and make bets.

I haven't looked, but could someone point one in the direction of a resource to explain all the terminology/strategy/standard practices?

Hobbes

compuease;309982 wroteHow big of an ROI would one have to have to get a 25% markup?

Theoretically, I'd say 35% ROI (makes you about 10% return on average). In practicality, it's market driven.

The other side, is I have over paid for markup on a horse based on a few factors. One of them being a lot of deep runs. While the ROI may not be there yet, I am betting in the log term it will.

Since Black Friday, a lot of horses are getting more than they deserve (based on the math), but with fewer good horses left the price has gone up.

Hell, I can sell my 45 man turbo action @ 20% markup (26% ROI) quite easily.

windbreaker

Free market, ROI doesn't matter. If ppl are willing to buy bad investments, ppl would charge 100% markup if they could

[deleted]

Hobbes;309989 wroteTheoretically, I'd say 35% ROI (makes you about 10% return on average).

this isn't a full stat though...it needs a proper sample and filters like game type, dates, entrants average buyin etc.

Hobbes

darbday;309992 wrotethis isn't a full stat though...it needs a proper sample and filters like game type, dates, entrants average buyin etc.

Yes. I assumed that they would all know about sample size, etc.

[deleted]

Hobbes;309993 wroteYes. I assumed that they would all know about sample size, etc.

even a lot of the reg player don't know i think....i only have a basic knowledge...

eeetee2011

I personally try to be fair when I post MU numbers and feel for any package 25% is about the max for an online package live is so soft if you have results more can be charged. But for the micro millions i charged 25% but have around 100% roi in those buyins but would never dream of charging that much. On the other hand I have only played a dozen 200+ buyins and only have one cash but I feel I can beat the limits so i charge 10 or 15% so it goes both ways since volume is such an important factor in ROI

JimmyHo

Don't forget the 30% withholding indirect markup that a lot of players pocket.

compuease

pokerJAH;310003 wroteDon't forget the 30% withholding indirect markup that a lot of players pocket.

huh?

Hobbes

He's talking about live BAPs and some do not take into account (when calculating ROI) the 30% w/h

eeetee2011

compuease;310034 wrotehuh?

he means the 30% withheld for live tournaments in the US

compuease

pokerJAH;310003 wroteDon't forget the 30% withholding indirect markup that a lot of players pocket.

Hobbes;310037 wroteHe's talking about live BAPs and some do not take into account (when calculating ROI) the 30% w/h

Not so sure, Jim was mentioning players pocketing it..

Hobbes

compuease;310039 wroteNot so sure, Jim was mentioning players pocketing it..

Doubt if I'm investing in a player that has enough to offset the w/h. :D

As I said for live investing (not much other than here), I assume the 30% w/h.

If I was doing enough live staking, I'd be providing the horse with my ITIN and other information for the paperwork moving the tax liability to me.

compuease

Hobbes;310041 wroteDoubt if I'm investing in a player that has enough to offset the w/h. :D

As I said for live investing (not much other than here), I assume the 30% w/h.

Well I was thinking more for online however live in the US is even worse. Say 25% markup, 10-15% rake and the 30% withholding...... How can any investor expect to make money long term..??

betrthanphil

half your roi in any givin tourney should be your markup. All tourneys shouldnt be the same. Like if you were to play the ME 10k your markup should be fairly high. Id guess that I should be selling at around 1.5-1.6 for the ME. As longterm Id expect my roi to easily be over 100% in the ME. Where as like a 5k at PCA my markup should prob be like 1.5-1.2 as its a small tough field.

T8urmoney

Pretty much your markup is whatever you can put up and still get investors. If someone with a 20% roi is trying to sell at 1.3....it probably just shouldn't sell.

Most regular posters here use sensible markup as compared to their ROI.

Like BTP states, one off's need to be rated individually. Most people (not here, but on other sites) sell off to avoid paying 100% themselves (ie. I only have $300, and want to play a $1000 tourney). Each tourney should be rated individually, not necessarily to the buy-in, but the difficulty level of the tourney.

When in doubt, if Hobbes isn't investing, don't buy.