flopped set, raise or call on the turn?

RWPKRPLR

I was playing zoom pkr yesterday and got felted once during my play, so it got me curious of what I could of done differently. The only info that I had on the villain is that he was running good given his stack and his table position. On the flop I put him top pair or maybe 88+. I know this is a cooler, but should I have played it this way?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: PokerTracker

BTN: $4.20
Hero (SB): $10.51
BB: $16.68
UTG: $22.79
UTG+1: $10.82
MP: $26.92
MP+1: $3.23
LP: $3.07
CO: $31.42

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 7d 7c

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.20, fold, Hero calls $0.15, fold

Flop: ($0.50, 2 players) Jd 2c 7h
Hero checks, CO bets $0.24, Hero calls $0.24

Turn: ($0.98, 2 players) Tc
Hero checks, CO bets $0.70, Hero raises to $1.40, CO raises to $30.98 and is all-in, Hero calls $8.67 and is all-in

River: ($21.12, 2 players) Ah

Hero shows 7d 7c (Three of a Kind, Sevens) (Pre 51%, Flop 83%, Turn 23%)
CO shows 8c 9c (Straight, Jack High) (Pre 49%, Flop 17%, Turn 77%)
CO wins $20.17

Richard~

RWPKRPLR;307258 wroteI was playing zoom pkr yesterday and got felted once during my play, so it got me curious of what I could of done differently.

I think I just found your problem. Everyone gets felted at times

RWPKRPLR

Thx for the reply! I guess I'm looking into it to much.

Richard~

RWPKRPLR;307276 wroteThx for the reply! I guess I'm looking into it to much.

yeah, I think you are. From the sound of it you crushed 10NL yesterday =)

RWPKRPLR

Yah, but today I didn't do so hot. played the same ranges, but i noticed one diff. I didnt have as many fish... only stacked 1 plr today.

Vekked

it's just a cooler but your raise-sizing on the turn is really really bad. min-raising this board just prices him in with gutshots and oesd's and all sorts of stuff that has equity vs. you. I think making it like 2.10-2.50 is ideal, and just jam pretty much any river that isn't an 8 or 9 (but still bet them usually)

RWPKRPLR

Kool thx vekked I will keep that in mind.

JimmyHo

hard to get away from this hand on the turn, luckily you didn't have $30 on the table. He's on a freeroll with the club draw as well. His overbet on the turn should have told you that you were drawing to 10 outs.

Meistro

Richard~;307260 wroteI think I just found your problem. Everyone gets felted at times

If analyzing your failures is a problem then I guess I should get some serious professional help!

Pre I don't think this is a clear cut call. What is your plan for the hand? Vs most players you will not be able to profitably set mine, so you will have to play your hand for it's value as a pair of sevens alone. I don't like to this vs unknowns, so I think the best choice is to fold. Also if you are to play it is very likely that three betting is more profitable than calling.

On the flop, and this will seem somewhat results oriented, but you have a clear check raise. I would be more inclined to slowplay top set, but even then I will usually raise it. Just last night I lost a full buy in almost exactly the same way you lost here (except i checked flop w/ initiative).

You should not slowplay. Better to never slowplay than to do so frequently. The conditions for an appropriate slow play are :

pot is small,
your hand is virtually unbeatable,
your opponent is likely to catch a second best hand...

skalansky outlines some more that I cannot presently recollect. It is far wiser to slow play top boat or quads than a set or trips. In your defense it was a dry board. Also if you are to raise someone post flop, better to do so @ 3/4s pot or full pot than 1/6th pot or w/e a min raise works out to.

Vekked

seems like a pretty clear cut call with 77 even without much of a plan. 77 isn't 22 here, 22 I think you have have a point but I think 77 you're going to have enough implied odds for a set vs. a random idiot at $10 NL, and there's going to be a decent amount of flops where you have an OESD/gut shot/overpair that you can peel one on. I don't think the average player is good enough at this level that we can't profitably flat here as long as we don't go bananas when we don't hit.

Meistro

Actually I read this as 4x raise, vs a min raise you are getting much better direct odds and I think you can play this profitably by calling pre and check raising good flops (set, overpair, 994 type boards)

RWPKRPLR

I almost don't want to interrupt! This shit is great. I started utilizing some of this new found wisdom. I saved money by not set mining, maximized my pots with larger bets, and stacked a couple by never min raising! oh ya I didn't even slow play. It was sick to watch others play less than optimal, which made it clear who I should exploit. Can't wait till I have a few hours free for a session. #gotlotstoworkon

JimmyHo

Why would you not set mine with a min raise pre-flop? IMO this hand is clearly defined with the overbet on the turn. This bet is so HUGE you know you are facing the nuts and are not getting the odds needed to chase your boat. I usually raise even on this flop but heads up you are so far ahead and in a sense you want this guy to catch up. The turn push just priced you out of the hand unfortunately.

Richard~

Meistro;307409 wroteIf analyzing your failures is a problem then I guess I should get some serious professional help!

you sir, are acting like an idiot for this comment and it's context

Richard~

pokerJAH;307452 wroteWhy would you not set mine with a min raise pre-flop? IMO this hand is clearly defined with the overbet on the turn. This bet is so HUGE you know you are facing the nuts and are not getting the odds needed to chase your boat

it's not that much of an overbet, it's something like 7,5 dollars into 5 if I'm not mistaken. If anything this makes him look weaker, a random 10NL player, and a random 10NL big stack at that can probably have 10J, AJ, any overpair and maybe even KQ here if he's crazy enough

The moral of this thread is that he won like 6 BI's in a night and stacked off with a decent sized set at micro stakes on a fucking sunday. How could anyone fault that

JimmyHo

in terms of 5/10 cents, I'm never folding for pocket change. If this was 2/5, etc. and the pot had $98 on the turn and he raises $867 into a $308 pot, I consider it an overbet. Wonder how hand would have played out if hero raised on the turn instead of checked?

RWPKRPLR

pokerJAH;307460 wrotein terms of 5/10 cents, I'm never folding for pocket change.

Yah, I know it's pocket change, but I need to keep it in perspective! If I think about as a micro game I will forget about the game just go haywire. It's not about
money, its about learning. I maybe wasting my time playing this level when I can afford higher levels, but why no keep it cheap while learning.

Also in response to the over bet post from you that's another thing I'm focused on, thinking it out a little longer in these scenarios! so thx.

JimmyHo

RWPKRPLR;307464 wroteYah, I know it's pocket change, but I need to keep it in perspective!

The other big problem is you have like five seconds to make a decision in this situation which can be a big factor. You don't have a lot of time to play back the hand, versus live.

RWPKRPLR

pokerJAH;307472 wroteThe other big problem is you have like five seconds to make a decision in this situation which can be a big factor. You don't have a lot of time to play back the hand, versus live.

So true, this is also another reason why I like zoom lol (almost called it rush) it's the same for you opponents

Meistro

Richard~;307454 wroteyou sir, are acting like an idiot for this comment and it's context

Am I? Do you think Bobby Fischer ever let any defeat or temporary set back ever go unanalyzed the nth degree? You should never be afraid or unwilling to lose pots but the more analysis you do of your own game the better. It's right not to just let the loss go. That's what the real fish do... they don't care, they just want the pleasure, the immediate gratification of winning a pot. My tone was a little bit over the top, to be sure - sarcasm is cheap.