I think I made a really good deal -- thoughts?

GTA Poker

3 handed stacks are roughly 550k, 1.6mil (me), 2.7mil. Blinds frozen at 20k 40k with 4k ante so quite a bit of play. I feel that I am by far the best player...short stack is older and way too tight, chip leader is a competent younger player but has 1 live tell when he makes a big hand post-flop and has some significant betting pattern tells.

Payouts:
18k first,
10k second,
6k third (ridiculous structure imo).

If the pay jumps weren't ridiculous I would likely not ever make a deal in this spot because there is lots of play and I feel that I am the best player.

ICM chip chop based on an app I downloaded before the tournament for 99 cents (highly recommend it) were roughly:
14k
12k
8k

Deal:
13k to chipleader
12k to me
7k to shorty

play for 2k

I think I made a deal that gave me the best value of the 3 players in that I am the only one getting my chip equity and am playing for the 2k left over out of the other players' chip equity.

Any thoughts about this deal? I have almost zero experience with this so would like some opinions.

moose

Anytime you can deal for better than 2nd place money, 3 handed is a win. Playing out for 2k more is icing on top.

Hobbes

GTA Poker;305264 wrote I think I made a deal that gave me the best value of the 3 players in that I am the only one getting my chip equity and am playing for the 2k left over out of the other players' chip equity.
.

No ICM expert, but anytime you get to keep your equity and have the others give it up is GOOD.

betrthanphil

this is a very good deal, I do however disagree that anytime you make a 3 handed deal and get more than 2nd place money its a good deal haha. But here its a really good deal. Well done!

GTA Poker

betrthanphil;305273 wrotethis is a very good deal, I do however disagree that anytime you make a 3 handed deal and get more than 2nd place money its a good deal haha. But here its a really good deal. Well done!

Thanks...I am not a fan of deals, especially when I know I am the best player with a workable stack.

Would you have made a deal in this spot given the payout structure, relative jumps and being the best player at the table (you can add some zeros to the end of the numbers if it makes it more relevant to you)?

Is it just me or is this payout structure ridiculous?

Richard~

the fact that you can play it out and win more than the first place money is so wtf

nvm, I'm stupid

windbreaker

Anytime you get more than your icm value, the deal can't be that bad. You got more than your ICM value, before playing for the 2k....which makes your deal really good for you.

As for making the deal 'knowing' you're the best player left. If that's true, the more top heavy the structure is, the better it is for you. This is because if you were able to have this situation occur a million times, you would win significantly more in the long run. In the real world, you're not going to reach this spot often enough...so lowering your variance is totally fine.

As for the payout structure itself, can't really tell. Kind of need to know in terms of # of entrants, # of spot paid, and % going to 1st/2nd/3rd. Looks a little top heavy, but nothing out of the ordinary.

GTA Poker

windbreaker;305281 wroteAnytime you get more than your icm value, the deal can't be that bad. You got more than your ICM value, before playing for the 2k....which makes your deal really good for you.

As for making the deal 'knowing' you're the best player left. If that's true, the more top heavy the structure is, the better it is for you. This is because if you were able to have this situation occur a million times, you would win significantly more in the long run. In the real world, you're not going to reach this spot often enough...so lowering your variance is totally fine.

As for the payout structure itself, can't really tell. Kind of need to know in terms of # of entrants, # of spot paid, and % going to 1st/2nd/3rd. Looks a little top heavy, but nothing out of the ordinary.

240ish players 24 paid. Lost the sheet, but seems low for 3rd to me.

betrthanphil

GTA Poker;305275 wroteThanks...I am not a fan of deals, especially when I know I am the best player with a workable stack.

Would you have made a deal in this spot given the payout structure, relative jumps and being the best player at the table (you can add some zeros to the end of the numbers if it makes it more relevant to you)?

Is it just me or is this payout structure ridiculous?

For sure givin the payout structure. Yes I agree its a bit ridiculous lol
With a nit as the shorty, you never know how much he will blind down too, giving the CL a chance to bully you. By doing the deal you get more than 2nd place and dont have to take crap from the CL while still playing for 2k! horrible deal for the short stack though! haha

Richard~

betrthanphil;305305 wrotehorrible deal for the short stack though! haha

now that you mention it this is hilarious x)

GTA Poker

Without a huge cooler/big flip I don't see a way the shorty is ever getting above third vs myself and the young player and even if he doubles he will more than likely get ground down again. ICM gives him 8k and he is getting 7k plus a chance at 2k more. If he were offered 8k with no further play is that still awful for him.

I think he knew that he was by far the worst player remaining.

If 8k flat still isn't a good deal for him then what would be reasonable if you were in his spot with his talents.

Richard~

no deal and shove every single hand for the rest of the tournament. I honestly think that would net him more money

compuease

I would never ever take that deal as the shorty and about as bad of an old nit as there is... Lol. But your deal is excellent Grand.

GTA Poker

Richard~;305312 wroteno deal and shove every single hand for the rest of the tournament. I honestly think that would net him more money

yes, but he would never do that...dude is like comp on Red Bull...1.5 gears

GTA Poker

compuease;305314 wroteI would never ever take that deal as the shorty and about as bad of an old nit as there is... Lol. But your deal is excellent Grand.

What would you take? I'm positive that you would adjust better than him 3 handed.

compuease

GTA Poker;305317 wroteWhat would you take? I'm positive that you would adjust better than him 3 handed.

Well in spite of all the jokes I wouldn't take less than 8.5 I would think. You do have to remember how much I have learned from all you here....;)

windbreaker

I think another important factor that isn't talked about, is the position of the stacks left in the tourney. If the nit is playing predictable and folds too often and is to your direct LEFT, you basically have a free positional advantage of the big stack twice. This is an incredible advantage you have.

Edit - Also normally, there's a huge icm pressure the big stack can place on the 2nd place in chips. I think in this particular case it's not as critical because you're relatively deep enough where you won't end up all in unless you want to. (Of course this may change quickly if you or the opponent 3 bets often).

compuease

The icm calculator I have been playing with lately is online at icmcalculator.com. Can some of you have a look at it and tell me if it's reasonable as a guide?

GTA Poker

compuease;305323 wroteThe icm calculator I have been playing with lately is online at icmcalculator.com. Can some of you have a look at it and tell me if it's reasonable as a guide?

same results as icm calculator app on android...I think is the standard black and white base used to think of a deal in tournies today, but I could be wrong

windbreaker

Also I believe the way ICM is 'normally' done with money taken out for the winner is as follows:

A) Do the ICM calculation with the listed prize pool for all the players remaining with the stack sizes.
B) Do the ICM calculation with the money taken out for the winner as the first place money.

Do each with the chip stacks of the players. Subtract B from A from each player, and that's the 'normal' ICM value of each player with money taken out for the winner.

- Just did the ICM calc. The value of the stacks with 2k left for first:

Chip leader - $12948
GTA - $11125
Short stack - $7927