First hand FT

[deleted]

Std. shove? Is min raise call shorty's an option? Big stacks are reg's but not good enough to re-shove a wide range. Ever folding? I haven't put this in an ICM calc but I imagine a9s is a fold

Poker Stars, $7.34 + $0.66 NL Hold'em Tournament, 1,000/2,000 Blinds, 200 Ante, 9 Players

UTG+2: 49,221
MP1: 12,842
MP2: 43,016
CO: 13,187
BTN: 7,369
SB: 66,414
BB: 22,948
JodaB. (UTG): 30,868
UTG+1: 24,135

Pre-Flop: (4,800) T

dealt to JodaB. (UTG)
JodaB ???

GTA Poker

darbday;297977 wroteStd. shove? Is min raise call shorty's an option? Big stacks are reg's but not good enough to re-shove a wide range. Ever folding? I haven't put this in an ICM calc but I imagine a9s is a fold

Poker Stars, $7.34 + $0.66 NL Hold'em Tournament, 1,000/2,000 Blinds, 200 Ante, 9 Players

UTG+2: 49,221
MP1: 12,842
MP2: 43,016
CO: 13,187
BTN: 7,369
SB: 66,414
BB: 22,948
JodaB. (UTG): 30,868
UTG+1: 24,135

Pre-Flop: (4,800) T A dealt to JodaB. (UTG)
JodaB ???

I doubt this is an ICM shove given stack sizes. Personally, without doing the math I would 2.1x and call a short shove. I can't min raise cuz I'm not cool enough.

It would also depend a bit on table dynamics but I'm not sure if you know that much mass tabling.

[deleted]

GTA Poker;297979 wroteI doubt this is an ICM shove given stack sizes. Personally, without doing the math I would 2.1x and call a short shove. I can't min raise cuz I'm not cool enough.

now this range is not adjusted or necessarily correct but its the icm with a 180 man payout

HoldemResources.net: Beta ICM Nash Calculator

[ATTACH]1061[/ATTACH]

GTA Poker;297979 wroteIt would also depend a bit on table dynamics but I'm not sure if you know that much mass tabling.

I am table dynamics

Vekked

rape it in

GTA Poker

I didn't see the antes...I assume this is always a push/fold spot?

[deleted]

GTA Poker;297986 wroteI didn't see the antes.

but its the ft ???

GTA Poker;297986 wroteI assume this is always a push/fold spot?

yes....but....looking at the stack sizes and with the players that were here, its going to be close to optimal to raise fold to the big stacks and just call the shorty's.

I might need more chips and slightly different stack sizes...but i think its close since nobody will widen there range when I min raise, and the big stacks are only going to re-shove a range that dominates us

GTA Poker

darbday;297987 wrotebut its the ft ???

yes....but....looking at the stack sizes and with the players that were here, its going to be close to optimal to raise fold to the big stacks and just call the shorty's.

I might need more chips and slightly different stack sizes...but i think its close since nobody will widen there range when I min raise, and the big stacks are only going to re-shove a range that dominates us

That's was my first thought but aren't we giving up too large a %age of our stack by r/folding?

You would have to do the math by assigning a range to the large stacks that would shove on you and how frequently they would be dealt those hands and what you lose by r/f vs how often you steal then blinds and antes vs what you perceive as a shorty's reshove range and how you do against it when you call.

[deleted]

GTA Poker;297989 wroteThat's was my first thought but aren't we giving up too large a %age of our stack by r/folding?

In short yes, and in general yes, but i think its almost a question here because we have AT and the bigstack reshove ranges are AJs+ TT+ and never KQ. So we don't get the normal odds to call a 3bet shove because here AT is uber dominated not just beat by his range, the cards they reshove are bad for our specific hand....

And that min raising utg look really strong here so everyone ranges are maximally tight

Vekked

r/f could be fine fo sho, in a vacuum it's a shove just from the HH

GTA Poker

darbday;297991 wroteIn short yes, and in general yes, but i think its almost a question here because we have AT and the bigstack reshove ranges are AJs+ TT+ and never KQ. So we don't get the normal odds to call a 3bet shove because here AT is uber dominated not just beat by his range, the cards they reshove are bad for our specific hand....

And that min raising utg look really strong here so everyone ranges are maximally tight

I don't play MTTS, but I am friends with a MTT pro and used to watch some of his online FTs.

Is UTG raise really perceived as strength these days? When I would watch him 1-2 years ago UTG was the new steal spot and I would think that players have adjusted to UTG raises with weaker shoves today.

GTA Poker

darbday;297991 wroteIn short yes, and in general yes, but i think its almost a question here because we have AT and the bigstack reshove ranges are AJs+ TT+ and never KQ. So we don't get the normal odds to call a 3bet shove because here AT is uber dominated not just beat by his range, the cards they reshove are bad for our specific hand....

And that min raising utg look really strong here so everyone ranges are maximally tight

I'd be interested in seeing the math on the 3 scenarios to calculate overall EV of min raising UTG, but it sounds like a large amount of work.

[deleted]

GTA Poker;297996 wroteIs UTG raise really perceived as strength these days?

<^^>

GTA Poker;297997 wroteI'd be interested in seeing the math on the 3 scenarios to calculate overall EV of min raising UTG, but it sounds like a large amount of work.

no one will ever do it, ha. actually people do it but its obv not fun. Best thing to do is to just ask a pro, keeping in mind any math done with icm is limited because icm has assumptions and approximations that make it not always correct....

maybe this problem is easier to solve than i describe tho

GTA Poker

darbday;297998 wrote<^^>

no one will ever do it, ha. actually people do it but its obv not fun. Best thing to do is to just ask a pro, keeping in mind any math done with icm is limited because icm has assumptions and approximations that make it not always correct....

maybe this problem is easier to solve than i describe tho

give me a hand %range shove from the big stacks and a hand %range shove from the short stacks and then we can figure it out

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GTA Poker;297999 wrotegive me a hand %range shove from the big stacks and a hand %range shove from the short stacks and then we can figure it out

JodaB. (UTG): 30,868

UTG+1: 24,135 88, AJs+
UTG+2: 49,221 TT, AJs+
MP1: 12,842 77+, ATs+
MP2: 43,016 TT, AJs+
CO: 13,187 77+, ATs+
BTN: 7,369 55+ AT+ , KJs+,
SB: 66,414 TT, AJs+
BB: 22,948 77 , AJs+,

see you'd have to play around a lil. sometimes people will fold ajs. Some will re jam hands like 99 and ajo.

the bb will flat sometimes and check fold alot with hands like kq.

so we can argue and adjust but prob start there

GTA Poker

darbday;298000 wroteJodaB. (UTG): 30,868

UTG+1: 24,135 88, AJs+
UTG+2: 49,221 TT, AJs+
MP1: 12,842 77+, ATs+
MP2: 43,016 TT, AJs+
CO: 13,187 77+, ATs+
BTN: 7,369 55+ AT+ , KJs+,
SB: 66,414 TT, AJs+
BB: 22,948 77 , AJs+,

see you'd have to play around a lil. sometimes people will fold ajs. Some will re jam hands like 99 and ajo.

the bb will flat sometimes and check fold alot with hands like kq.

so we can argue and adjust but prob start there

will get this done tomorrow (hopefully)

[deleted]

GTA Poker;298002 wrotewill get this done tomorrow (hopefully)

Richard~

I'd probably just fold pre if 9handed

Vekked

Nitchard~

DennisG

I am glad there are much better players than I on here to answer these...

From the OP I would be 2Xing and calling the shorts...it's final table, first hand...people tend to tighten the first couple hands while feeling everyone out. Granted I play more guaranteed mtt's than 180's...so possibly the dynamics are different...but still..

I personally don't think utg raises are as strong (by regs) as they used to be.

Vekked

DennisG;298068 wroteI am glad there are much better players than I on here to answer these...

From the OP I would be 2Xing and calling the shorts...it's final table, first hand...people tend to tighten the first couple hands while feeling everyone out. Granted I play more guaranteed mtt's than 180's...so possibly the dynamics are different...but still..

I personally don't think utg raises are as strong (by regs) as they used to be.

Really depends who the deepstacks are, I would def min/call some % as well. If the deepstacks are nitty randoms then probably min/call is best. If they're gonna be spazzing and making you fold the best hand some % of the time, then ramjam.