Live fun.....def a btp question....

[deleted]

actually im not down with live pokerz.....anyways:

....you can imagine my image fairy tightest as its still early no antes......ive won some pots by bluff catch and making small value bets that the better player are noticing but no one really else knows whats going on....I may have raise folded once or twice in late position to the sb when villain was bb.....

hero is utg (10 handed) with about 70bbs.....villain mp has me covered......

i raise ako to 2.5bbs.....villain raise to about 10 times the bb......lp flats....action on hero.......???

initial raiser is an older guy 45ish but not the real nitty type....looks like hes been playing 30 years and plays not bad....i don't expect any bluff in his range obv......

i don't feel like i can continue past a four bet.....and i hate flatting oop....but surely folding is worse?

syphilaids

Nh.

Where and when was this? Casino Donkament? Are there really fast blind raises, doubling every time? or is it a snooze fest where you can wait?

If its a ridiculous structure and the blinds are doubling in 5 hands, I ship. If they go up a lot slower, I flat and CR or CF depending on flop. I think you're getting called 100% of the time when you ship though.
Yet you can flat and CF and still have 60bbs left, which is not bad provided the blinds are doubling next level.

[deleted]

normal blind structure....bcpc 1100....

Wetts1012

Unfortunately, you must 4b in the live pokerz. Villain will flat with AQ/AK - and jam with QQ+, hand is basically faceup at that point - especially with this particular villain descrip.

Richard~

do we really 4bet a third of our stack and fold here?

Wetts1012

Richard~;284872 wrotedo we really 4bet a third of our stack and fold here?

I do this deep. Range definition I think is better than a fold here, and certainly better than playing 3 handed oop.

[deleted]

Wetts1012;284868 wroteUnfortunately, you must 4b in the live pokerz. Villain will flat with AQ/AK - and jam with QQ+, hand is basically faceup at that point - especially with this particular villain descrip.

ya ok......it was strange and new....and being so deep im not used to aswell which is the whole deal......and i really did feel exactly what you say...hes flatting ak /aq and maaaybe qq but obv 5 betting KK/AA. And actually i don't really think hes often 3betting with aq here...(although maybe mistakenly for information)....

but i flatted because of the third caller we're fairly deep and i have some skill advantage....but i didn't feel comfortable with any decision....like those aren't good reasons but i don't feel i could 4bet/call .......

so we 4bet fold then? turns ak into a bluff?

Wetts1012

darbday;284875 wrote so we 4bet fold then? turns ak into a bluff?

Pretty much when we get shovelled.

I think theres alot of value though when midage competent villain types (who arent going to 5bet AQ/AK, 1010/JJ) flat us here - which is gonna happen a ton and we use our skill in bigger pots.

[deleted]

Wetts1012;284876 wrotePretty much when we get shovelled.

I think theres alot of value though when midage competent villain types (who arent going to 5bet AQ/AK, 1010/JJ) flat us here - which is gonna happen a ton and we use our skill in bigger pots.

messed up.... but i figured something like that might be best....

do we know by now i flatted and donked flop with air and check folded turn ;p

Wetts1012

I thought a bit more and there might be a situation where we 4b call.

If youve been super active and villain is truly competent we could click back here and possibly induce.

This situation doesnt sound like it though.

[deleted]

Wetts1012;284878 wroteI thought a bit more and there might be a situation where we 4b call.

If youve been super active and villain is truly competent we could click back here and possibly induce.

This situation doesn't sound like it though.

no

mind you i don't have a lot of exp with inducing....without skill advantage tho...i wonder if its a fold....but is flatting worse than folding?

the thing about four betting is we're only getting folds from aq i think.....and were bloating pot oop vs ak/jj+ or so.....i think i can take the pot sometimes with an a or a k on the flop but i don't think i get any real value and i think i loose a lot of times when he has ak ip...

off to cash game

Wetts1012

darbday;284879 wrote i think i loose a lot of times when he has ak ip...

I dont know about that. You have control of the hand now. Donk all flops.

[deleted]

Wetts1012;284882 wroteI dont know about that. You have control of the hand now. Donk all flops.

right...

Scotty12

After the action to us we have a 67 bb stack and the pot has just under 25bb in it. We are out of position against 2 players and I assume at least one of them is a fish.

If all of these things are correct then I feel : 4b folding < folding < calling

Shove.

Adds variance free 33% to your stack more often than you'd think. Hit a 3 outer or win a race as much as you'd think.

betrthanphil

Im kinda interested to know how deep into tourney this is, effects my decision. I hate hate hate 4 bet folding almost always with a hand like AK. but this might be a spot where you could do it. If i 4 bet and the 3 better comes over the top i can fold, but if it goes fold then the flatter shoves im probably going to call. Hate playing these kind of pots now adays, im more of a small ball nit now haha. I more see it as 4betting=folding > calling.

I kinda feel i get a better sense of people live to help me make this decision.

Richard~

I kinda feel like a natural 4bet sizing would be shove here though

betrthanphil

after doing the math you are correct, unless you clicked it back. the problem here i think is that the 3bet is of a bigger size then normal. Maybe not for alive play but from an online stand point. I think a shove might be good here because it does look like a large shove but in reality it really isnt. I take 4 betting out of the possibilty now, shove or fold imo. Im fine with either, depending on what I think of the players and point in tourney would help me further decide

ryanghall

I suggest you fold.

[deleted]

ryanghall;285419 wroteI suggest you fold.

is this in an unreg pre kinda fold....or actually being oop vs a narrow 3bet range...i can actually consider folding?

ryanghall

actually being oop vs a narrow 3bet range