betrthanphil;279835 wroteWith 6k and blunds 1200/2400. you have 0 fold equity unless they are dumb or not paying attention. with the ante up concept it is different. Antes 400. So people only have 400 committed each therefore you have fold equity for 6k. see the difference now?
That's what I thought too at first and while that may very well be true it's not the whole truth. If we pretend we only have to worry about the BB in both cases we shove 6k in the ante up game, leaving the BB having to call 6k to win 16k which he needs maybe 35% equity to do. If we do the same thing in a normal game the BB needs to call 3,6k to win like 15,4k which he only needs like 24% to do so so far so good.
In an ideal ante up game though (BB <<<<< ante) everyone should be at least limping every hand so any shove you make into a limped pot needs to get through 8 other players, x of which you may or may not be able to cut out chunks of their ranges cause they just limped, but everyone left to act after you needs only 35% equity vs your range to make that call. Granted then they'd have to worry about further action but 6k is a pretty small investment for an average sized stack at this point so the adjustment won't be more than 1-2% equity per position
In a normal game the BB would need 24% to call you, the SB would need 4,8 to win 16.65 or 29% equity (adjust that for the possibility for further action putting it at maybe 30-31% equity). any other player that's not the blinds need to call 6k to win 17,85k which is 33% which we then need to adjust for further action.
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Summing up the ante up scenario in an unraised pot we're always shoving into 8 guys who are getting 35% equity to call adjusted for their relative positions where you can say something about the first x limpers. In a normal game you're shoving into 8-x players, x of whom you know will not call and 2 who you know will be very likely to call
I'm making this post mostly for my own sake to try to learn something about the math of poker so this might all be obvious to someone more knowledgable than me already. The next step would be to sum all positions up and create a function of x yielding the probability we're getting at least one caller in each game but that feels a bit too advanced (since just cause someone needs 35% equity to call doesn't mean they're calling with 35% of their hands)
Basically I did a bunch of analysis and I can't conclude anything from it other than that we're very likely to get called when shoving 1,5M in both games ^^'. When we're shoving UTG in both games we prefer to be in an ante up situation in terms of FE and when we're shoving the SB we also marginally prefer being in the ante up game in terms out FE. Too bad I couldn't come up with anything more interesting, I'll just leave this here for anyone who cares at all