ok?

[deleted]

I guess i have history for this hand in that villain has been opening alot of pots with weak hands all over the place.....mostly from ep.....this is just standard get it in on the turn i think?

Hand History Preview

Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds, 50 Ante, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Yodabatman (BB): 11,275
UTG: 4,525
UTG+1: 19,657
MP1: 10,240
MP2: 7,822
CO: 10,517
BTN: 8,367
SB: 24,109

Pre-Flop: (1,000) K

dealt to Yodabatman (BB)
4 folds, CO raises to 1,000, 2 folds, Yodabatman raises to 2,400, CO calls 1,400

Flop: (5,400) 9

(2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 2,400, CO calls 2,400

Turn: (10,200) 9

[ T

] (2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 6,425 and is All-In???

Richard~

I still don't like how you give him almost 3:1 odds pre with such an akward stack unless you believe he's gonna fold bunch and it will give your bluffs more value. I guess you have to shove turn just as you would have to call all in on turn if positions were reversed

[deleted]

Richard~;272105 wroteI still don't like how you give him almost 3:1 odds pre with such an akward stack unless you believe he's gonna fold bunch and it will give your bluffs more value. I guess you have to shove turn just as you would have to call all in on turn if positions were reversed

ya i felt awkward with that sizing pre too but i usually let table ninja setup my 3bet sizes with antes. i thought about bumping it up a little more but he has so much kx and ax i didn't think it mattered...also his range is so weak i didn't want him to fold pre i guess....but he prob woulda called more..

betrthanphil

I think you played it well!

[deleted]

betrthanphil;272170 wroteI think you played it well!

ok.

how about his one....

Hand History Preview

Poker Stars, $6.45 + $0.55 NL Hold'em Tournament, 75/150 Blinds, 7 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Yodabatman (MP): 3,172
CO: 2,135
BTN: 1,530
SB: 2,108
BB: 2,480
UTG: 980
UTG+1: 1,055

Pre-Flop: (225) 7

dealt to Yodabatman (MP)
2 folds, Yodabatman raises to 300, CO calls 300, 3 folds

Flop: (825) K

(2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 375, CO calls 375

Turn: (1,575) K

[ 7

] (2 Players)
Yodabatman checks, CO bets 450, Yodabatman folds

Results: 1,575 Pot
CO showed and WON 1,575 (+900 NET)

Richard~

betrthanphil;272170 wroteI think you played it well!

my trouble when going small is how much to bet-call vs how much to bet-fold and how much to check-shove <.<

Richard~

darbday;272178 wroteok.

how about his one....

Hand History Preview

Poker Stars, $6.45 + $0.55 NL Hold'em Tournament, 75/150 Blinds, 7 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Yodabatman (MP): 3,172
CO: 2,135
BTN: 1,530
SB: 2,108
BB: 2,480
UTG: 980
UTG+1: 1,055

Pre-Flop: (225) 7 K dealt to Yodabatman (MP)
2 folds, Yodabatman raises to 300, CO calls 300, 3 folds

Flop: (825) K A Q (2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 375, CO calls 375

Turn: (1,575) K A Q [ 7 ] (2 Players)
Yodabatman checks, CO bets 450, Yodabatman folds

Results: 1,575 Pot
CO showed and WON 1,575 (+900 NET)

Not sure if like <.< His hands with spades would be like a passive KJ with J of spades or like A10 with the 10 of spades. He would probably raise most QJ one spade hands on the flop and probably not have many naked flushdraws without a pair or a draw. I think check call turn check fold flop here most of the times

[deleted]

darbday;272095 wrote Turn: (10,200) 9 6 J [ T ] (2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 6,425 and is All-In???

just for fun: villain called down 8h9h

[deleted]

Richard~;272195 wroteNot sure if like <.< His hands with spades would be like a passive KJ with J of spades or like A10 with the 10 of spades. He would probably raise most QJ one spade hands on the flop and probably not have many naked flushdraws without a pair or a draw. I think check call turn check fold flop here most of the times

theres alot of made hands that make this awkward turn bet where they are folding hand they beat and only getting looked up by flushes.on top of 1 spade hands.....is why i folded. it would be their attempt at pot control....maybe

edit: ok not a lot but kq for sure ...a7?

ReefAquarium

darbday;272095 wroteI guess i have history for this hand in that villain has been opening alot of pots with weak hands all over the place.....mostly from ep.....this is just standard get it in on the turn i think?

Hand History Preview

Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds, 50 Ante, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Yodabatman (BB): 11,275
UTG: 4,525
UTG+1: 19,657
MP1: 10,240
MP2: 7,822
CO: 10,517
BTN: 8,367
SB: 24,109

Pre-Flop: (1,000) K A dealt to Yodabatman (BB)
4 folds, CO raises to 1,000, 2 folds, Yodabatman raises to 2,400, CO calls 1,400

Why don't you shove here?

Flop: (5,400) 9 6 J (2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 2,400, CO calls 2,400

Why don't you shove here?

Turn: (10,200) 9 6 J [ T ] (2 Players)
Yodabatman bets 6,425 and is All-In???

[deleted]

ReefAquarium;272211 wroteWhy don't you shove here?

his range is really weak so more often than not he will just fold...his weak range plus his poor postflop skills are going to leak chips to me i think ....if i shove it just helps him fold worse hands and call with better ones...

ReefAquarium;272211 wrote Why don't you shove here?

id love to get it in here as we are most likely ahead and or certainly have odds for it....so i bet to induce a shove which would be fine. but i want to look a little weak to get value from hands that caught a bit and want to see one more card.....but im certainly jammin any turn card and the villain is going to almost always make a mistake on the turn....

also over betting the flop is kina meh i think ....:-\

those are the spots your referring to right? not the river cause i did shove the river...

Richard~

darbday;272208 wrotetheres alot of made hands that make this awkward turn bet where they are folding hand they beat and only getting looked up by flushes.on top of 1 spade hands.....is why i folded. it would be their attempt at pot control....maybe

edit: ok not a lot but kq for sure ...a7?

Then you get a cheap showdown iether way most of th e time, right?

[deleted]

Richard~;272214 wroteThen you get a cheap showdown iether way most of th e time, right?

maybe but thats the question...is the showdown cheap enough...

theres jt too....maybe ill list the range...

Vekked

Richard~;272105 wroteI still don't like how you give him almost 3:1 odds pre with such an akward stack unless you believe he's gonna fold bunch and it will give your bluffs more value. I guess you have to shove turn just as you would have to call all in on turn if positions were reversed

Richard, what does 3:1 odds pre actually mean? How do you know if 3:1 is good or bad odds pre? How about 2:1 or 4:1?

Pre-flop odds are very over-emphasized by a lot of people when they really mean very little in most cases (especially when people use them to justify calling 3-bets or defending their big blinds). Obviously there becomes a line when they begin to matter but when there is still post-flop to be played and money behind, implied odds and reverse implied odds are much more relevant. In most actual situations it's probably not a mistake until you're giving someone close to 5:1 pre, but it's fairly irrelevant since you should never be thinking about the odds you're giving them pre anyways, but rather how much of their remaining stack you are forcing them to call to continue.

Vekked

Both hands are played fine. I would personally go smaller pre and flop in the first one to give your turn shove more FE since you'd be shoving closer to pot, but your sizing is fine, it's just my personal sizing preference but I take the same line.

Hand 2 (K7dd) looks fine too, pre-flop is the closest decision and I would usually fold pre-antes here, but it is def fine if everyone after you is a nit. Post is good.

Richard~

Vekked;272305 wroteRichard, what does 3:1 odds pre actually mean? How do you know if 3:1 is good or bad odds pre? How about 2:1 or 4:1?

I do agree with what you're saying and I'm not calling here in villains shoes. But to me 3:1 means that villain won't care and call pre with most of his range and since we know his range is weak we often go up against two live cards here and there are a lot of flops that would suck to bet fold and suck to bet call with our ak. Villain is probably never folding pre given stacks if he hits a pair since people love putting people on ak in 3bet pots. Against a tighter or more competent player this sizing would be much better since we're either going up agianst more Ax and Kx hands or we're actually up against someone who cares they're being put in a bad spot vs our range

In our position we're 3betting a hand, not a range. And if we ignore trying to balance our ranges and put the hand in a vacuum, villain can sometimes put us in a bad spot if he doesn't consider our range.

Vekked

If he calls pre we're printing money with such short effective stacks and the initiative. We are most definitely NOT 3-betting a hand and not a range. He's still going to fold a bunch when we both miss, and he's still going to stack off with his Kx on K-high flops, and his Ax on A-high flops. You think he's only calling suited connectors and not suited aces or broadways? You think he's folding KQo or AJo but not T9o? I don't think it's possible for him to be both bad enough to just put us on AK and flat a bunch, yet good enough to be able to exploit us a ton because he knows what we have. Obv he still wins the pot some % of the time, but it's a very small %, and him flopping pairs every once in a while and stacking because he puts us on AK is not going to be enough to outweigh the times he stacks with worse hands anyways because he's bad, or ends up putting in more money post flop with 2nd pair on Axx or Kxx anyways.

Richard~

In no way did I mean that our hand is face up. What I meant was if this sizing is gonna make villain feel so picked on the he's gonna shove QJ on a 7 high flop cause he believes he has outs when called I'm not sure this is the typ of hands we want to go to 2400 with. We're probably still in a +EV spot either way, but are we really printing more money by 3betting small than we are by 3betting bigger and discouraging calls and forcing villain to make a way bigger mistake by continuing

[deleted]

all im looking for in the first hand is initiative, and i like the idea of better smaller through out that hands as it gives a little more room to maneuver and kinda looks ultra strong. i don't expect him to get away with a k high flop with a k in his hand etc.

and im suprised vekked is down with the 2nd one. ive been practicing betsizing and its changing the game, i think im starting to understand something, no idea what it is but the game feels like german to me sometimes now....still have no idea what this game is about.

and i def don't open the 2nd one all the time, it was game flow and timing and had to be done.