as per hobbes...

Vekked

betrthanphil;267001 wroteis 22 really a call in moormans spot?

We're getting sick odds in the BB, we only need 42% to call. The only way we don't have that is if they're shoving less than 15% (77+,A7s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo). I don't think there's barely a person on the internet who's folding one of those hands, and most ppl are shoving way wider with 8BB in the hijack.

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betrthanphil;267001 wroteis 22 really a call in moormans spot?

well what are you shoving or what is a random with 96 or so on opr shove...he can't be far off perfect from me or he wouldn't be one of the best...

Vekked

darbday;267003 wrotebut if moorman was the pusher here you snapping with....

22+ Ax+ K2s+ K8o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s?

also i was under the assumption moorman was not a person

Kinda depends how on my game I was. That's nash right? I think K2s, Q6s, 97s, 87s, type stuff might see the muck in game a lot of times. All hands in nash should 100% be called vs. regs at this level though, even slightly wider vs. most.

Vekked

darbday;267006 wrotewell what are you shoving or what is a random with 96 or so on opr shove...he can't be far off perfect from me or he wouldn't be one of the best...

You might be giving a bit too much credit to good regs and their shortstack abilities. Moorman probs is better than most regs for pushbotting, but a lot of regs are really atrocious, hence why I'm more likely to play 1k turbo's than normal 1k's. Many good regs aren't good just b/c they're shortstack ninjas.

betrthanphil

meh I dont like call with 22, even with odds. Maybe in a non turbo game with stacks at the table being much larger then the current stacks at this game. With stacks being so low I think its more profitable to fold and find a better spot. Not saying its correct or the best play, its just what a prefer.

[deleted]

Vekked;267007 wroteKinda depends how on my game I was. That's nash right? I think K2s, Q6s, 97s, 87s, type stuff might see the muck in game a lot of times. All hands in nash should 100% be called vs. regs at this level though, even slightly wider vs. most.

ok ok...thats what i was getting at and i think the range i gave is even slightly tight....

edit: oops its slightly wide....i went the back wards way....

this:
22+ Ax+ K6s+ K9o+ Q9s+ QTo+ J9s+ T9s

lord did you do that off your head....

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Vekked;267008 wroteYou might be giving a bit too much credit to good regs and their shortstack abilities. Moorman probs is better than most regs for pushbotting, but a lot of regs are really atrocious, hence why I'm more likely to play 1k turbo's than normal 1k's. Many good regs aren't good just b/c they're shortstack ninjas.

this is an awesome convo i think because won't most turbos include better shortstackers....

Vekked

darbday;267011 wrotethis is an awesome convo i think because won't most turbos include better shortstackers....

Watcha mean exactly? Like turbo's will bring out better shortstack players? I think up to 109s or something it might be true, but most of the guys w/ enough money to play 1k turbos and stuff are guys who made most of that money due to their skills with deeper stacks.

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betrthanphil;267009 wrotemeh I dont like call with 22, even with odds. Maybe in a non turbo game with stacks at the table being much larger then the current stacks at this game. With stacks being so low I think its more profitable to fold and find a better spot. Not saying its correct or the best play, its just what a prefer.

if moorman is the pusher its a rediculous fold i think....hes shoving wider than....

22+ Ax+ K5s+ KTo+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s 76s

Vekked

betrthanphil;267009 wrotemeh I dont like call with 22, even with odds. Maybe in a non turbo game with stacks at the table being much larger then the current stacks at this game. With stacks being so low I think its more profitable to fold and find a better spot. Not saying its correct or the best play, its just what a prefer.

It could be true from an ICM/$EV perspective, like if we're deep in the money or close the the money bubble, but if we're far away from the money or it's a winner take all I think you have to call this for sure.

[deleted]

Vekked;267012 wroteWatcha mean exactly? Like turbo's will bring out better shortstack players? I think up to 109s or something it might be true, but most of the guys w/ enough money to play 1k turbos and stuff are guys who made most of that money due to their skills with deeper stacks.

ya its just an assumption...but if your right then i should be able to move up in the turbos...

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i also feel like your understating the shove game vekked....but maybe i overestimate it.....but i think we (didn't mean me i meant we as all poker players) spending most of our tourney lives as winning players in shove or fold situations with effective stacks....and that a great icm game can only spawn from a great chipev shoving game....

Vekked

darbday;267017 wrotei also feel like your understating the shove game vekked....but maybe i overestimate it.....but i think we (didn't mean me i meant we as all poker players) spending most of our tourney lives as winning players in shove or fold situations with effective stacks....and that a great icm game can only spawn from a great chipev shoving game....

So you're saying that to be a good reg and have good MTT results you need to be a good pusbotter?

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Vekked;267024 wroteSo you're saying that to be a good reg and have good MTT results you need to be a good pusbotter?

yes but i am not arguing the fact i just was under the impression thats where online players begin to make there monies....by exploiting those who don't....

but can we seriously resonabley think that moorman1 doesn't push and call to an extremely accurate degree....?

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Vekked;267024 wroteSo you're saying that to be a good reg and have good MTT results you need to be a good pusbotter?

also because that actual $ev hands are in the push stages of the game....:confused:

philliivey

darbday;266992 wroteactually being from the uk maybe he was drunk...

hahahaha, awesome. :)

But yes this is a shove, I recall this very conversation I had with another u.k. online pro LUFC bas on this very hand with your stack size.

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philliivey;267046 wrotehahahaha, awesome. :)

But yes this is a shove, I recall this very conversation I had with another u.k. online pro LUFC bas on this very hand with your stack size.

wow thats some recollection....

also this:

Snoopy: Ever played drunk?
CM: Yeah, but I actually play better when I'm drunk.

Vekked

darbday;267025 wroteyes but i am not arguing the fact i just was under the impression thats where online players begin to make there monies....by exploiting those who don't....

but can we seriously resonabley think that moorman1 doesn't push and call to an extremely accurate degree....?

Not every player makes their money purely through pushbotting. There are some great cash players who make money at MTTs and are probably pretty poor at shortstack play, but more than make up with it through deepstack play. I think a lot of the best MTT players are good because they are great with 30-50BB stacks, and are decent enough to get by at 20 and less. Some pro's make pretty big mistakes with shoving and calling, I see it all the time, especially in super turbo's. I don't know enough about moorman's shortstack play but I don't think it's unreasonable for any top pro to potentially have pretty big shortstack leaks, it all depends on whether that's one of their strengths or not. There are plenty of good MTT players who are probably -EV in the highstakes turbo's/super turbo's the play.

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Vekked;267064 wroteNot every player makes their money purely through pushbotting. There are some great cash players who make money at MTTs and are probably pretty poor at shortstack play, but more than make up with it through deepstack play. I think a lot of the best MTT players are good because they are great with 30-50BB stacks, and are decent enough to get by at 20 and less. Some pro's make pretty big mistakes with shoving and calling, I see it all the time, especially in super turbo's. I don't know enough about moorman's shortstack play but I don't think it's unreasonable for any top pro to potentially have pretty big shortstack leaks, it all depends on whether that's one of their strengths or not. There are plenty of good MTT players who are probably -EV in the highstakes turbo's/super turbo's the play.

i would have never of believed this....and i can't understand why....

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darbday;267065 wrotei would have never of believed this....and i can't understand why....

so when wetts says divide by two for live shoves hes just being moorman1?

lol oh and when rick re shoves 97o but not open ship jts

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