Veeeeeeekkkeeddd!!!!!!!!!!!

[deleted]

ya but what do we do here then?

Poker Stars, $50 + $5 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: 2,850
SB: 3,710
BB: 3,330
UTG: 2,765
Yodabatman (UTG+1): 4,397
MP1: 2,920
MP2: 3,355
CO: 4,247

Pre-Flop: (75) A

dealt to Yodabatman (UTG+1)
UTG folds, Yodabatman raises to 137, 3 folds, BTN raises to 350.....

???

DennisG

without a read, pretty easy fold.

-and I know I am not vekked..just getting my .03 in.

jdAA88

I wouldn't say it's an easy fold, I always want to flat here lol, but I'd more say it's an ANNOYING/fml fold

[deleted]

jdAA88;264090 wroteI wouldn't say it's an easy fold, I always want to flat here lol, but I'd more say it's an ANNOYING/fml fold

i think then its a fold pre because this early we are way to likely to get 3 bet....

betrthanphil

If its the first time he has 3bet you id let him get away with it.

Richard~

darbday;264091 wrotei think then its a fold pre because this early we are way to likely to get 3 bet....

lol, that logic...

[deleted]

Richard~;264105 wrotelol, that logic...

if we are going to fold everytime we getting 3 bet from someone in position, even as wide as the button...then theres no money to be made here....

Richard~

except for maybe when they flat us with A2o and stack off on an A high flop?

[deleted]

Richard~;264111 wroteexcept for maybe when they flat us with A2o and stack off on an A high flop?

hmmm flaters gonna flat huh.....

Richard~

darbday;264113 wrotehmmm flaters gonna flat huh.....

if you think about it that's probably where most of your monies come from. 3 betting and 4 betting light is overrated

[deleted]

Richard~;264119 wroteif you think about it that's probably where most of your monies come from. 3 betting and 4 betting light is overrated

i 'will' think about it....

do you mean villain 3 betting and 4 betting light, cause theryre unknowingly exploiting us here i think....

Richard~

I don't think so, not unelss you're unknowingly opening wide from EP this early on. In which case we're bringing it upon ourselves

[deleted]

Richard~;264125 wroteI don't think so, not unelss you're unknowingly opening wide from EP this early on. In which case we're bringing it upon ourselves

no youre right i said that wrong.....how about there must be a certain number where if the table 3bets enough and we are gonna fold....then we exploit ourselves...

Richard~

There's a certain number if the table 3 bets too often we don't open light. Our adjustments with our normal range should be to value 4bet lighter. I don't really like folding AQo from any position regardless of stacks

[deleted]

Richard~;264128 Our adjustments with our normal range should be to value 4bet lighter.[/QUOTE wrote but its too earlier to be able to 4 bet aqo, regardless if the table is 4betting to much

Richard~

darbday;264132 wrotebut its too earlier to be able to 4 bet aqo, regardless if the table is 4betting to much

If they force us to adjust, we adjust. And not by turtling up and folding winners. I don't like 4 betting AQo either, but I don't like flatting OOP if I think we're ahead more often than not

[deleted]

Richard~;264134 wroteIf they force us to adjust, we adjust. And not by turtling up and folding winners. I don't like 4 betting AQo either, but I don't like flatting OOP if I think we're ahead more often than not

but being ahead this deep in a 3bet pot isn't nearly as useful than later on. and depends on the pair they do this with we may not really be ahead of the range at all.....

Richard~

4 betting is uncomfortable at first but you get used to it sooner or later. it's a good general rule not to get into big pots preflop early on but if you see the spot you need to take it.

Most of the time AQ is a pretty clear bet-fold in this spot though

Vekked

Yea just fold here. He's not really light ever unless he's some sicko to 3-bet bluff an EP raiser full-ring pre-antes. The value (like I think richard said) is in when fish flat with worse hands. If there are no fish, then the value is in having a bit more balanced range. Even still it's just a good hand mostly and I'm always just raising it for value, I even raise AJ a lot here at $50 level and under because people are so bad. I don't recommend you do it yet though, if you're not quite comfortable opening AQ.

Basically you're being a bit paranoid if you think you're getting exploited by raise/folding AQ here. They need you to fold ~2/3 of the time to exploit you by 3-bet bluffing. If your range is AQ+, 22+ that's (I'm not sure if you open 22-55 here or not, but just assuming for this example) 8.3% of hands. AK/JJ+ is 3% of hands so you're still continuing >1/3 of the time, thus them 3-bet bluffing you is -EV in a vacuum given this range.

So hopefully this puts you at ease knowing that even if they're bluffing you they're losing money in a vacuum (it could be profitable overall depending on how you react/play post flop, tho). If they're not bluffing you, they're just allowing you to play perfectly by folding AQ when they have AK.

Vekked

I see 4-betting talk here... probably just avoid it unless you're certain you know the spot for it. Only 4-bet AQo when the person's value range is small and you're rarely (ideally never) seeing a flop.