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betrthanphil

moose;262456 wroteHere's a related question. What do you do in this situation here early on in a tourney?

Seat 1: altekyachips (2670 in chips)
Seat 2: hestfesten (3000 in chips)
Seat 3: strelk (5370 in chips)
Seat 4: H2OhYeah (2690 in chips)
Seat 5: krabat2006 (1160 in chips)
Seat 6: lauren234 (2980 in chips)
Seat 7: cdnmoose07 (4970 in chips)
Seat 8: rickypapro (3000 in chips)
Seat 9: magicstylez (4020 in chips)
krabat2006: posts small blind 10
lauren234: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cdnmoose07 [As Qh]
cdnmoose07: raises 35 to 55
rickypapro: folds
magicstylez: folds
altekyachips: folds
hestfesten: raises 125 to 180
strelk: folds
H2OhYeah: folds
krabat2006: folds
lauren234: folds

Fold is the right play, I dont fold it 100% of the time however I prob should haha. Its a fold because we dont know what this guy is doing, is he a donk, is he tight, etc etc either way we dont want to play a big pot this early, and calling a 3 bet here will prob lead to a big pot whether the flop by A high or Q high. Its too early to have any info on this guy and its better to sit back and observe how the table is playing. This early people could be playing 78s or AA this way. I feel more confident in outplaying people in later levels as I can put my opponents on an accurate range of hands. But in the early levels I never know if they have it or its just some donk.

Vekked

darbday;262445 wroteya i think thats one hand above a5s....well thats the way i play it...and im way happier with a9s too

For calling reships A5s isn't as powerful as it is for jamming since people's ranges are fairly ace heavy. So actually even A7s > A5s.

Vekked

@moose - not really related at all (I mean both hands contain re-raises but the skillset/thought process for determining how to proceed is entirely different), but yes this is a fold 100% with no info. If stakes are low enough it could become a call, but in general calling AQ here is burning money.

[deleted]

Vekked;262460 wroteFor calling reships A5s isn't as powerful as it is for jamming since people's ranges are fairly ace heavy. So actually even A7s > A5s.

i figure something like this.....

77+,A8s+,KQs,QJs,ATo+,KQo

Vekked

darbday;262462 wrotei figure something like this.....

77+,A8s+,KQs,QJs,ATo+,KQo

Take out QJs, throw in 66 and maybe 55 I think. If you're calling KQo and A8s you can't fold 66.

[deleted]

Vekked;262466 wroteTake out QJs, throw in 66 and maybe 55 I think. If you're calling KQo and A8s you can't fold 66.

i meant for villains shoving range

Vekked

darbday;262467 wrotei meant for villains shoving range

Oh god that's way too tight for a high stakes reg. He's not folding any pair, suited broadway, or suited ace esp given betrthan's info about gameflow (villain's liable to think betr's opening really light here). I don't know how much looser he is than that, but he's def gonna have that stuff in his range. I'd say he's cramming 15-20% of the time, but not quite the 30% needed to call A7o.

moose

I didn't mean to threadjack, I thought the discussion on the OP was basically over. Thanks for the responses. Essentially my line of thinking too but I hadn't played any online for a couple of months and was feeling rusty. I dumped it because I didn't want to playing it OOP postflop. I didn't think there would be any way I would be taking this down unless an A fell and it went check check on the flop and even then AK could be setting a trap. If I donk bet the flop and he flats or raises I'm just burning money.

darb would fold this outright. Anyone else play that tight early on in a tourney? Of course if I am going to lay this down to a 3 bet, maybe that is a reason for folding it outright?

Vekked

Open folding AQo pre is bad basically always. The only real situation you should be open folding AQo is if you probably shouldn't be playing the tournament in the first place. Reasons being:

a) If there are at least a couple fish at the table who will call your open with AJo/KQo or worse dominated hands then you're printing money right there. At lowstakes probably 50% of the field will do that.

b) If there are no fish super fish at the table you should be able to play well enough post flop to still turn a profit. The only reason you would have a table with no one bad enough to make it super profitable, and a lot of good players who can play equal or better than you, is if you're playing a tournament you shouldn't in the first place, aka you're the spot at the table.

Also, just because you have to fold to a 3-bet most definitely does not mean you should open fold. Sometimes it does in late game situations vs. spazzes who are 3-betting you relentlessly. The reason we open AQo is because it will play very well vs. the calling ranges of most donks at our table in a single raised pot, and the reason we fold to a 3-bet is because it will not play well vs. the 3-betting ranges of most donks at our table. We can probably expect QQ+/AK to re-raise us fairly frequently, and therefore when we get to a flop with this hand as the pre-flop raiser we can assume our top pairs are the effective nuts until we face sufficient resistance.

EDIT:

One small sidenote for point B, you could conceivably be +EV in a tournament but be bad enough deepstacked that you should open fold AQ in EP, but this probably says that you should just late reg since you're -EV early game.

[deleted]

Vekked;262471 wroteOpen folding AQo pre is bad basically always. The only real situation you should be open folding AQo is if you probably shouldn't be playing the tournament in the first place. Reasons being:

a) If there are at least a couple fish at the table who will call your open with AJo/KQo or worse dominated hands then you're printing money right there. At lowstakes probably 50% of the field will do that.

b) If there are no fish super fish at the table you should be able to play well enough post flop to still turn a profit. The only reason you would have a table with no one bad enough to make it super profitable, and a lot of good players who can play equal or better than you, is if you're playing a tournament you shouldn't in the first place, aka you're the spot at the table.

Also, just because you have to fold to a 3-bet most definitely does not mean you should open fold. Sometimes it does in late game situations vs. spazzes who are 3-betting you relentlessly. The reason we open AQo is because it will play very well vs. the calling ranges of most donks at our table in a single raised pot, and the reason we fold to a 3-bet is because it will not play well vs. the 3-betting ranges of most donks at our table. We can probably expect QQ+/AK to re-raise us fairly frequently, and therefore when we get to a flop with this hand as the pre-flop raiser we can assume our top pairs are the effective nuts until we face sufficient resistance.

EDIT:

One small sidenote for point B, you could conceivably be +EV in a tournament but be bad enough deepstacked that you should open fold AQ in EP, but this probably says that you should just late reg since you're -EV early game.

omg im a nit!

[deleted]

Vekked;262468 wroteOh god that's way too tight for a high stakes reg. He's not folding any pair, suited broadway, or suited ace esp given betrthan's info about gameflow (villain's liable to think betr's opening really light here). I don't know how much looser he is than that, but he's def gonna have that stuff in his range. I'd say he's cramming 15-20% of the time, but not quite the 30% needed to call A7o.

ya i stand corrected.... of course ;)

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