sng hu strategy

trigs

i came across this article today about a sng endgame strategy. it's specifically for heads up with small stacks (i.e. one stack is less than 10 BBs)

i think it's pretty self evident for the most part, but i do like the structure of it. it seems that i pretty much play like this anyway in those situations. any comments?

i'll summarize if for those who don't want to read the article:

must be heads up with one stack less than 10BBs
you take your two cards and figure out your power number (eg. your hand is K10s; K = 13 x 2 (you double your highest card) + 10 + 2 (add 2 because it's suited) = 38
check the push/call chart in relation to the smallest stack size and if your power # is equal to or greater than in the chart you push/call

i guess it's a standard push/fold chart for the most part, but what do you guys think of it?

Milo

Does an Ace = 14? Just asking.

Hobbes

Pretty sure that's the SAGE system

trigs

Milo;261168 wroteDoes an Ace = 14? Just asking.

actually A = 15.

trigs

Hobbes;261172 wrotePretty sure that's the SAGE system

yes, it's the sage system.

trigs

trigs;261183 wroteyes, it's the sage system.

does this mean this system is popular and accepted then?

BuyinBank

This system is well know amongst HU SNG regulars. It is considered roughly "unexploitable" so long as you follow the shoving range and your opponent follows the calling range.

If your opponent is calling tighter or looser than the calling range, you need to adjust accordingly. Same thing if your opponent is shoving tighter or looser than the suggested shoving range.

After you learn this one, most serious HU SNG players move onto the NASH shoving ranges, which is what SAGE approximates, and then the Chubukov endgame strategy.

Lots of info about this on 2+2 and some of the poker math books. The main thing about SAGE is that it approximates NASH, because it's a lot easier to memorize.

trigs

thanks buyinbank.

Richard~

BuyinBank;261285 wroteThis system is well know amongst HU SNG regulars. It is considered roughly "unexploitable" so long as you follow the shoving range and your opponent follows the calling range.

Lol, a system that relies on our opponents calling range being a certain way doesn't sound very unexploitable now does it? ^^'

BuyinBank

Hence the "quotes". :)

Vekked

Richard~;261294 wroteLol, a system that relies on our opponents calling range being a certain way doesn't sound very unexploitable now does it? ^^'

Nah it's basically unexploitable, it's just meant to be an easier way to learn nash afaik. Playing unexploitably is pretty over-rated tho.

Vekked

BuyinBank;261285 wroteAfter you learn this one, most serious HU SNG players move onto the NASH shoving ranges, which is what SAGE approximates, and then the Chubukov endgame strategy.

What's this? Just the sklansky-chubokov charts?

BuyinBank

Yes, I believe those are them.

I read about them in the HUSNG Regs thread ages ago and someone created a spreadsheet that did the math for you. Simply stick in your stack size in BBs and your specific hand and it gives you your decision for you (Shove or fold)

Vekked

BuyinBank;261760 wroteYes, I believe those are them.

I read about them in the HUSNG Regs thread ages ago and someone created a spreadsheet that did the math for you. Simply stick in your stack size in BBs and your specific hand and it gives you your decision for you (Shove or fold)

Sklansky-chubokov charts aren't particularly useful other than from a theoretical standpoint. They just show what you can profitably shove face up, which is far less than what you should actually be shoving at any time anyways. They're important in that they basically opened the door for pre-flop strategies based on unexploitability and such, though.

[deleted]

Vekked;261763 wrote which is far less

How far less when?

Vekked

darbday;261791 wroteHow far less when?

Not sure how to answer this but I think its fairly intuitive that if we can push a certain % of hands face up if they're playing perfectly, we should be able to push more in any given situation since people can't play perfectly vs. Our face down range

Richard~

Vekked;261763 wrote They just show what you can profitably shove face up, which is far less than what you should actually be shoving at any time anyways.

This is extremely important for any mtt reg to understand btw. Just because you can't shove a hand unexploitably in a certain spot doesn't mean the range you are shoving at that time is not unexploitable

[deleted]

Vekked;261872 wroteNot sure how to answer this but I think its fairly intuitive that if we can push a certain % of hands face up if they're playing perfectly, we should be able to push more in any given situation since people can't play perfectly vs. Our face down range

i have an idea..but it only works for me....

[deleted]

Richard~;261882 wroteThis is extremely important for any mtt reg to understand btw. Just because you can't shove a hand unexploitably in a certain spot doesn't mean the range you are shoving at that time is not unexploitable

and how sir....do YOU decide?

trigs

darbday;261893 wroteand how sir....do YOU decide?

my gut?