60 BBs deep in MTT

djgolfcan

Full Tilt Poker Game #27163666865: $9,500 KO Guarantee (210826490), Table 182 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:39:34 ET - 2011/01/10
Seat 1: Xicuw (4,150)
Seat 2: Seed-Bank (3,050)
Seat 3: dufferdevon (6,570)
Seat 4: meho141181 (4,140)
Seat 5: shulman89 (6,175)
Seat 6: AcespleaseAA (3,900)
Seat 7: u-s-m-h (9,330)
Seat 8: WAGN5R (6,950)
Seat 9: flushdrawx (11,790)
u-s-m-h posts the small blind of 50
WAGN5R posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dufferdevon [3d 3c]
flushdrawx folds
Xicuw folds
Seed-Bank calls 100
dufferdevon calls 100
meho141181 folds
shulman89 calls 100
AcespleaseAA calls 100
u-s-m-h folds
WAGN5R checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 6s 3s]
WAGN5R checks
Seed-Bank checks
dufferdevon bets 300
shulman89 raises to 600
AcespleaseAA folds
WAGN5R folds
Seed-Bank folds
dufferdevon raises to 1,200
shulman89 calls 600
*** TURN *** [Th 6s 3s] [As]
dufferdevon : ??

compuease

Check and hope he doesn't bet you off the hand. His line looks like a flush, especially with the minraise trying to get a free card..

Your minraise on the flop was way too small.

[deleted]

here's a different way of thinking about this.....we know that sometimes we will play a hand correctly and still get sucked out on. the question here most people ask is do we bail or do we go with it?

A better question is how do i keep the opponent from folding hands that you still have beat? If your opponent doesn't have a flush draw the ace of spades is a scary card if he has kk or two pair.

Check here....if he bets big you can fold if he bets small you could call one more and check fold the river....of course you can still hit a full house on a river. for this reason i might only call the flop raise and evaluate the turn or re raise flop to at least 2000 and jam any turn

and if its set over set no worries.....

.

westside8

Raise bigger over his min-raise please. Bet something like 1750 and fold to a shove. If he calls..well, re-evaluate river.

Edit: Crap, just realized if you bet 1750, you leave yourself with like...3 to 1 to a shove. And he can bluff you off on the river on any non-paired board if you check... I still think you should bet here on the turn though despite that.

[deleted]

westside8;252244 wrotethis is where we fold out all the top pairs, over pairs, and two pairs and get re raised by the flushes....

this is where we fold out all the top pairs, over pairs, and two pairs and get re raised by the flushes....

Wetts1012

Im in check call mode on turn and rivs. Very few rivs here Im folding.

Also, Im shoving flop as a disguiser. There is no further value in the hand.

Wetts1012

darbday;252248 wrotethis is where we fold out all the top pairs, over pairs, and two pairs and get re raised by the flushes....

Doesnt that accomplish the same thing as check calling? We're not getting any value for the rest of the hand from the same hands that are folding to turn bets here and depending on sizing we may actually save money vs., the check call. Its just a method Im personally more comfortable with.

I think they both accomplish the same goal.

[deleted]

westside8;252244 wrotethis is where we fold out all the top pairs, over pairs, and two pairs and get re raised by the flushes....

Wetts1012;252259 wrote the check call. Its just a method Im personally more comfortable with.

I think they both accomplish the same goal.

no no, betting folds the better hands....check calling adds more value by catching worse hands trying to bluff/value bet......i think you just misinterpreted.....we are taking the same line.....

unless i mis mis interpreted...

djgolfcan

edited for further discussion.

[deleted]

djgolfcan;252278 wrotewell, I did check the turn, so did he, river comes another spade, I check, so does he and he flips over Jh-Ts - fml

well played then....no worries

westside8

darbday;252248 wrotethis is where we fold out all the top pairs, over pairs, and two pairs and get re raised by the flushes....

I'm confused as to how you quoted me with what you said.

So you're suggesting we check call as well? Or check the turn?

Btw djgolfcan..IMO, you posted the results way too early. Should let discussion carry on a little further first, or even not post results as results don't really matter anyways in strategy discussion

westside8

Wetts1012;252258 wroteIm in check call mode on turn and rivs. Very few rivs here Im folding.

So you're essentially turning this set into a bluff catcher?

[deleted]

westside8;252286 wroteI'm confused as to how you quoted me with what you said.

So you're suggesting we check call as well? Or check the turn?

if we bet the turn we lose chips to his flushes but if we check villain will likely check any non flush hands down....if he bets the turn big i would highly consider laying down. i expect only one small bet from any non flush hand and not a bet on the river....but prob not even and but we have outs if we call all in.......

westside8

darbday;252291 wroteif we bet the turn we lose chips to his flushes but if we check villain will likely check any non flush hands down....if he bets the turn big i would highly consider laying down. i expect only one small bet from any non flush hand and not a bet on the river....but prob not even and but we have outs if we call all in.......

Are you as hero likely to 3-bet flop with a naked flush draw? As villain, would you believe hero has the flush and fold top pair/overpair type hands (especially if one of the cards in their hand is a spade) to a turn bet? So by betting we're getting value from the types of hands we're ahead of to call.

Checking gives villain the chance to bet his entire calling range on the flop, where all we're doing is playing a guessing game should villain make a bet. I guess we would have good equity against his entire range, but what if villain called with a pair + a spade - you're giving him a free draw should he decide to check behind.

Now I'm just talking/arguing against myself...

[deleted]

westside8;252294 wroteAre you as hero likely to 3-bet flop with a naked flush draw? As villain, would you believe hero has the flush and fold top pair/overpair type hands (especially if one of the cards in their hand is a spade) to a turn bet? So by betting we're getting value from the types of hands we're ahead of to call.

i think of it as spewing money into a flush and giving no chance to get chips from a worse hand bluffing (if we choose to check call.

westside8;252294 wrote
Checking gives villain the chance to bet his entire calling range (from) the flop,

this is good because it helps our equity vs the flushes in his range.....

westside8;252294 wrote all we're doing is playing a guessing game should villain make a bet.

no we know his range and allowed him to bet with bluffs.....

westside8;252294 wrote but what if villain called with a pair + a spade - you're giving him a free draw should he decide to check behind.

this is our risk here to try to get a safe showdown....

[deleted]

....and its just my opinion...im having fun reading hands and what not....

Richard~

westside8;252244 wrote. Bet something like 1750 and fold to a shove.

I dunno, I don't see this happening in less than a 500 dollar BI or like 150+ BB's deep..