Live MTT vs Online MTT

JtotheLew

I am going to start playing in a local weekly MTT $100.00 buyin with upto 90 players.. Have played a fair amount of 1/2 NL and quite a bit of SNG and MTT online with marginal success.. ( I am young and fairly new to the game,break even player online, maybe even slightly losing at this stage to be honest, but around break even, and about $600-800 profit this past year in 1/2 NL live which is ok for how frequently I play ) anyways, was wondering how you advanced MTT guys approach a live MTT differently then online?

jdAA88

good question, I'm curious about this as well.

compuease

Good question... Come on out, we'll teach you.. :)

syphilaids

although I'm not an advanced MTT pro, I do frequent live mtts about 6-10x per year. When I was unemployed, hit it about twice a week.
Generally, these tournies are like turbo tournaments. I find that playing TAG for the first few blinds raises works well, and once you have a read on most players, I like to start punishing limpers.
People in these tournies often go to town with TP and better. When they don't have TP, they usually check/fold, so its easily exploitable.
Try to play most hands in late position. Good luck!

Joker

YouTube - Bill Fillmaff's $4.40 180-player SNG Final Table - Part 1

blackmagicz

its important at the beginning to set up your table image so you get paid (either tight or loose depending on your comfort) i tend to stay tight early on and play abc poker as there will be a lot of dead money early on. most live players limp with hands and over value 1 pair. dont be afraid to play your hands strong and over pairs will usually get paid off cause live players cant hand read well.

old men only play the nuts for the most part so trap and crack strategy works well against them. live mtt are gruelling but if you pay attention to the players you will able to spot the bad ones quick

BlondeFish

I found Harrington's and Snyder's PTF1 basic strategies to be very profitable in these fishy live tournaments. Online, the pot size is always shown, but live, players make huge mistakes because they don't know how to figure out pot odds or proper bet sizing. There is also extra money to be made in making deals, as many live players are terrified of coming home empty-handed, but there is no online default deal to choose.

JtotheLew;240298 wroteI am going to start playing in a local weekly MTT $100.00 buyin with upto 90 players....
was wondering how you advanced MTT guys approach a live MTT differently then online?

Wetts1012

Im gonna give this a shot, and it might get long. Not sure.

Online and Live MTT are completely different.

Dont let anyone ever tell you these games are even close to being the same - its not even the same universe. Ranging (both opening and calling), 3 and 4 bet frequencies, and positional play all contrast significantly from live to online. BMZ made a point about table image. I think its important especially if you "look" like an internet player.

a) Opening range. In general (and based on the trends currently in mid-high stakes online), I think your opening range and frequencies should be somewhat higher/wider than what you would do online in position. The primary reason is that very few inexperienced (or "experienced") live players 3 bet you light. Nobody EVER cold 4s live. If they do youre screwed. Whereas typically online you'll get fold or a 3bet to one of your opens, your gonna get hooded more often than not live, which leads to:

b) Cbetting. Do it live. It still works. Online trends see alot of CR of cbets. This hasnt hit the live world yet.

c) 3bets. Do it live. Do it light. As long as its not frequent you can get away with it in specific spots and often enough that nobody really notices.
OPT Friday night a tightish Female player opens in LP to 600 @ 100/200. I 3bet the button with 10/7 spades to 1700 and she open folds 99. We were about 40 bigs deep. People will give you credit for hands more often than not.

Hand 2 from Orangeville: 200/400 interwebby type guy opens to 900 from the CO I 3bet the puck with K3 clubs. Somehow the hand goes to showdown and I get there with a pair of 3s. Interwebby guy laughs and gets it. The rest of the table think I have Downs. So I can get away with it 8/9 times.

d) 4bets. If you do it live, Never do it light. If you get 3bet you're either up against someone who is on to you, or someone that has the immortals. The latter more often than not.

e) Squeeze the table. 4 players limp for 50 @ 25/50. It comes to you on the puck make it something rediculous - say 350. Very rarely do you get called. If you do villain is pretty faceup and postflop is super easy. BMZ stated below. Live play theres alot of limping (even super shallow like 10bb poker). This dynamic just doesnt exist online anymore.

d) Be politically incorrect. This is important. Be ageist. Very few of the old boys have figured it out. Use the statistics to you're advantage - old dudes always have it. There are only a few out there that Ive ever played with that know what we're thinking and play against it. One of the best at this is Milton Slim. I get the feeling Compuease does it too.....

But he told me he always has the nuts so I might be wrong.

compuease

blackmagicz;240324 wrote old men only play the nuts for the most part

That's all I play.. Thanks.. ;)

compuease

Wetts1012;240331 wrote d) Be politically incorrect. This is important. Be ageist. Very few of the old boys have figured it out. Use the statistics to you're advantage - old dudes always have it. There are only a few out there that Ive ever played with that know what we're thinking and play against it. One of the best at this is Milton Slim. I get the feeling Compuease does it too.....

But he told me he always has the nuts so I might be wrong.

Hey Snowflake, I think we're being called out here... :)
We wouldn't do that, would we? Not only that but I think Wetts is setting is us up for a new twist to his game, what ya think?

Oh and yea, if I 4 bet you I definitely do have the nuts.. My game hasn't advanced THAT far yet..

philliivey

Awesome info ITT in this thread.:)

blackmagicz

Also be patient to some degree depending on the structure. There is no need to try to win the tournament in the first 2 blind levels. Its ok to fold. Pot control iss very important and please try not to stack off with one pair like 40bbs deep. I see it all the time and laugh

jdAA88

great post Wetts, I even lol'd a few times too

JohnnieH

jdAA88;240355 wrotegreat post Wetts, I even lol'd a few times too

+1 especially at Wetts having Downs.

Great thread, keep it up boyz!

JtotheLew

Wetts1012;240331 wroteIm gonna give this a shot, and it might get long. Not sure.

Online and Live MTT are completely different.

Dont let anyone ever tell you these games are even close to being the same - its not even the same universe. Ranging (both opening and calling), 3 and 4 bet frequencies, and positional play all contrast significantly from live to online. BMZ made a point about table image. I think its important especially if you "look" like an internet player.

a) Opening range. In general (and based on the trends currently in mid-high stakes online), I think your opening range and frequencies should be somewhat higher/wider than what you would do online in position. The primary reason is that very few inexperienced (or "experienced") live players 3 bet you light. Nobody EVER cold 4s live. If they do youre screwed. Whereas typically online you'll get fold or a 3bet to one of your opens, your gonna get hooded more often than not live, which leads to:

b) Cbetting. Do it live. It still works. Online trends see alot of CR of cbets. This hasnt hit the live world yet.

c) 3bets. Do it live. Do it light. As long as its not frequent you can get away with it in specific spots and often enough that nobody really notices.
OPT Friday night a tightish Female player opens in LP to 600 @ 100/200. I 3bet the button with 10/7 spades to 1700 and she open folds 99. We were about 40 bigs deep. People will give you credit for hands more often than not.

Hand 2 from Orangeville: 200/400 interwebby type guy opens to 900 from the CO I 3bet the puck with K3 clubs. Somehow the hand goes to showdown and I get there with a pair of 3s. Interwebby guy laughs and gets it. The rest of the table think I have Downs. So I can get away with it 8/9 times.

d) 4bets. If you do it live, Never do it light. If you get 3bet you're either up against someone who is on to you, or someone that has the immortals. The latter more often than not.

e) Squeeze the table. 4 players limp for 50 @ 25/50. It comes to you on the puck make it something rediculous - say 350. Very rarely do you get called. If you do villain is pretty faceup and postflop is super easy. BMZ stated below. Live play theres alot of limping (even super shallow like 10bb poker). This dynamic just doesnt exist online anymore.

d) Be politically incorrect. This is important. Be ageist. Very few of the old boys have figured it out. Use the statistics to you're advantage - old dudes always have it. There are only a few out there that Ive ever played with that know what we're thinking and play against it. One of the best at this is Milton Slim. I get the feeling Compuease does it too.....

But he told me he always has the nuts so I might be wrong.

Funny post, pretty much you and Vekked were the guys this post was intended for so I am really hyped that you posted. You say I should 3 bet a wider range of hands in position, is it safe to say I should be willing to limp a lot more then as well with things like suited connectors in mid-late position?

Whenever I have played 1/2 NL live I have limped a lot of hands and even called 3 bets with very marginal hands knowing I can outplay some old guy or weekend gambler on a dry flop.

jdAA88

JtotheLew;240358 wroteFunny post, pretty much you and Vekked were the guys this post was intended for so I am really hyped that you posted. You say I should 3 bet a wider range of hands in position, is it safe to say I should be willing to limp a lot more then as well with things like suited connectors in mid-late position?

Whenever I have played 1/2 NL live I have limped a lot of hands and even called 3 bets with very marginal hands knowing I can outplay some old guy or weekend gambler on a dry flop.

Yeah but thing is, when they're 3betting they usually have it, so it's not really a good idea to flat with garbage and try to outplay imo. Better to have the initiative in the hand.

moose

Live it is really to make an error as to your chip count or the pot or your opponents chip count. Every new level I like to count my chips and write it down next to the level on a blind schedule. I also note the ave stack if that info is avail.

Every once in a while go around the table and guage your chip position relative to the others. If you can't approximate what someone has, ask them to give you an estimate.

Never ever call an allin until you know what their chip count is and what yours is. Gives you time to think about the decision anyways. Most common mistake I make is snap calling an allin then realizing they had more chips than you thought or you had less than you thought and now 75% of your stack is gone.

BlondeFish

JtotheLew;240358 wroteYou say I should 3 bet a wider range of hands in position, is it safe to say I should be willing to limp a lot more then as well with things like suited connectors in mid-late position?

Do NOT open limp - RAISE!

T8urmoney

jdAA88;240362 wroteYeah but thing is, when they're 3betting they usually have it, so it's not really a good idea to flat with garbage and try to outplay imo. Better to have the initiative in the hand.

yes, this....it can be profitable in situations in a cash game when you're 100+bb's deep....but remember, tournies you are generally much shorter stacked in comparison to blinds, so you can't waste them

if you can limp, you can raise

T8urmoney

One thing not mentioned anywhere. Identify calling stations on your table (ie. the guy that can't fold a pair).

With these players, value bet light.....and almost never bluff.

Nothing makes me smile more than someone bluffing his stack to a calling station who calls with top pair no kicker.....and knowing those chips will eventually be yours.

This goes with 3-betting light as well.