chipEV to $EV question

Richard~

In a huge mtt field it's pretty common to say that chips lost are worth more than chips gained early on. Let's say you start up 4 10 dollar tournaments with a 3k starting stack and you bust 3 of them and grind your way up to 12k in the last one.

Ignoring the rake, does this mean we have broken even EV wise so far (in other words that we're expected to win on average 40 dollars with this stack) or have we lost equity?

Comments?

compuease

That's a really good question and I haven't thought of it that way before... My gut feeling would be that they are totally separate events, independant of each other, however given same buyin, same structure, # entrants, etc I can see where we could do some sort of total chip value to $$$ value comparison.. I'm very curious to see others comment are on this..
Good thought provoking idea Richard..

DennisG

I don't think they are the same, as the (possible) EV of 4 3k starting stacks is greater than that of one 12k stack...\i could be out to lunch though..it is early and I haven't had coffee yet...

[deleted]

DennisG;230502 wroteI don't think they are the same, as the (possible) EV of 4 3k starting stacks is greater than that of one 12k stack...\i could be out to lunch though..it is early and I haven't had coffee yet...

im only halfway through my coffee but possible and expected are double adjectives here.....almost. but me thinks maybe the same here.

DennisG

darbday;230504 wroteim only halfway through my coffee but possible and expected are double adjectives here.....almost. but me thinks maybe the same here.

lol..yeah..probably. Maybe.

-edit-likely...not maybe.

Wetts1012

Uh theres only one person really skilled to respond to this properly and he doesnt post here much anymore.

BlondeFish

Yes, you have lost equity. In your example, the $EV of your 12,000-chip stack will be between ~$31 - $38, depending on the relative stacks and payout structure.

Richard~;230494 wroteIgnoring the rake, does this mean we have broken even EV wise so far (in other words that we're expected to win on average 40 dollars with this stack) or have we lost equity?

Wetts1012

Wetts1012;230636 wroteUh theres only one person really skilled to respond to this properly and he doesnt post here much anymore.

Nevermind.

syphilaids

First off, I'm basing my opinion on absolutely nothing but my own misconstrued logic.

That being said, I think they are seperate. I think you need to take the average stack at the time of cashing. (say 1000 entrants at 1000 chip starting stacks, 10% get paid, so average is 100,000chipsto make the money. This would = x amount of dollars)
winning for example 10K I think should relate to the average stack to cash. so in this point, it would be 10% of (last place money?), and not 10x your buy in.

Vekked

Richard~;230494 wroteIn a huge mtt field it's pretty common to say that chips lost are worth more than chips gained early on. Let's say you start up 4 10 dollar tournaments with a 3k starting stack and you bust 3 of them and grind your way up to 12k in the last one.

Ignoring the rake, does this mean we have broken even EV wise so far (in other words that we're expected to win on average 40 dollars with this stack) or have we lost equity?

Comments?

We've lost $EV slightly since, as you said, chips lost are worth more than chips gained in tournament poker. The amount of equity lost is probably pretty minimal/irrelevant though since cEV is pretty close to $EV in the early game, or at least close enough that $EV shouldn't affect any of our decisions.

Fwiw, though, I wouldn't worry too much about $EV in tournaments in almost any situation that isn't an exact bubble, or final table (if this question was meant to give you some practical application).