What are we going with this in respect to limpers?

[deleted]

I found a hand with a lot of early limpers, not the best hole cards but how do they affect your play with AQo or better, or whichever starting hands you would play at the time.

***** Hand History for Game 8557606806 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $1 USD Buy-in Trny: 48216170 Level: 2 Blinds(30/60) - Wednesday, October 28, 23:56:12 PDT 2009
Table Regular (1777227) Table #5 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: Crazy_Bee ( 6,690 )
Seat 2: CyMungus ( 3,860 )
Seat 3: Pupak666 ( 2,870 )
Seat 6: felle77 ( 1,820 )
Seat 10: HERO( 3,500 )
Seat 9: johnnysteep ( 2,760 )
Seat 1: leytes ( 2,860 )
Seat 7: nikolaiblino ( 2,160 )
Seat 8: tog772 ( 3,140 )
Seat 5: vlipa ( 3,320 )
Trny: 48216170 Level: 2
Blinds(30/60)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO[ Qh Ac ]
felle77 calls [60]
nikolaiblino calls [60]
tog772 calls [60]
johnnysteep calls [60]
HERO folds
leytes folds
CyMungus folds
Pupak666 folds
Crazy_Bee calls [30]
vlipa checks
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 4c, 9h ]
Crazy_Bee checks
vlipa checks
felle77 bets [120]
nikolaiblino calls [120]
tog772 folds
johnnysteep folds
Crazy_Bee folds
vlipa folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
felle77 bets [120]
nikolaiblino calls [120]
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
felle77 checks
nikolaiblino checks
felle77 shows [ Th, 4s ]a pair of Fours.
nikolaiblino shows [ 8s, Ts ]a pair of Eights.
nikolaiblino wins 840 chips from the main pot with a pair of Eights.

[deleted]

or i could ask how would this affect the range of cards you would play. What kind of bets would you use and would you ever just call

DrTyore

I would raise a ridiculously large amount...

With the blinds and the 4 limpers, the pot is at 360, I raise it here to 500... they`re not calling.

Mark

Pinhead

Oh they're calling still, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Never fold in that spot, eithe limp if you want to control the size of the pot, or put in a big raise to drive out some of the limpers. My preference is raising since you definitely have the best hand here and need to protect that. AQ is unlikely to hold up against 4 limpers and the blinds, so push some of them out and try to get against 1 or 2 players, not 6

JohnnieH

It's a $1 MTT. You're ahead. Go all in. You'll get called by someone with shitty cards. Hope they don't suck out.

[deleted]

JohnnieH;200789 wroteIt's a $1 MTT. You're ahead. Go all in. You'll get called by someone with shitty cards. Hope they don't suck out.

im gonna go out on a limb here and say that mathmatically or logically it doesn't matter if its a one dollar tourney or a $1000 dollar tourney....

jdAA88

5-6x it pre, definitely don't fold, AQ is way ahead of their range imo

DrTyore

darbday;200807 wroteim gonna go out on a limb here and say that mathmatically or logically it doesn't matter if its a one dollar tourney or a $1000 dollar tourney....

100% wrong there chum

If that were the case, the only determining factor between the big games and the little games would be bankroll. Players at this level call too often, don't raise when they should be, and will put their money in way behind. That's why you raise with AQ... you have the best hand now, put money in ahead.

If you were playing a $1k buyin, you would NEVER see this many limpers. And you would definitely not see a T4 / T8 like your situation at showdown very often.

Mark

[deleted]

DrTyore;200822 wrote100% wrong there chum

If that were the case, the only determining factor between the big games and the little games would be bankroll. Players at this level call too often, don't raise when they should be, and will put their money in way behind. That's why you raise with AQ... you have the best hand now, put money in ahead.

If you were playing a $1k buyin, you would NEVER see this many limpers. And you would definitely not see a T4 / T8 like your situation at showdown very often.

Mark

for some reason i missed the context of that post, I can't believe I needed that pointed out to me. I blame it on living in BC

[deleted]

jdAA88;200809 wrote5-6x it pre, definitely don't fold, AQ is way ahead of their range imo

do you not have any of these limpers on a pocket pair?

[deleted]

DrTyore and others,

I had a long conversation with myself for a moment and the summary of it came as a question. Can doubling up in the first few hands have such a prize money effect (is this +ev?) that you can take a 45/50, 50/50, 55/45, 60/40, or 70/30 chance? After a 500 chip bet preflop id assume i'm pot commited after making a flop bet. and if i fold at any point after the preflop bet, i really only have one more shot to play poker before the chips and levels have me shoving no?

And furthermore wouldn't betting preflop be loose play? Its can't be called tight play right? I've always read to play tight/aggresive early on, and although its aggresive I can't think that its tight. But I wonder if doubling up early has large effect on the money one wins from tournements.

DrTyore

darbday;200831 wrotedo you not have any of these limpers on a pocket pair?

Maybe, but not QQ and up.... so you're at worst 50/50, and you're getting a lot of dead money... plus anyone with like less than TT should be folding to a large bump.

Mark

[deleted]

DrTyore;200834 wroteMaybe, but not QQ and up.... so you're at worst 50/50, and you're getting a lot of dead money... plus anyone with like less than TT should be folding to a large bump.

Mark

i was always under the impression that the same people who limp into pots are the ones that slowplay AA-QQ in multiway pots

ReefAquarium

darbday;200873 wrotei was always under the impression that the same people who limp into pots are the ones that slowplay AA-QQ in multiway pots

In $1 tourneys they limp in with T8 and T4 from early position.

You must bet here ....

Calling or folding is truly awful ... You must be aggressive ... Slowplaying is never right on a loose passive game like this.

DrTyore

Being tight aggressive means that you raise only your best hands.

AQ is one of the top hands in poker, so you should raise with it. If you DON'T raise, you're being tight / passive. Think about it, what's better than AQ? AA, KK, QQ, and AK. So, it's one of the top % of hands in poker....

If you think raising with AQ is loose, then you're not tight, you're a nit.

Mark

darbday;200833 wroteDrTyore and others,

I had a long conversation with myself for a moment and the summary of it came as a question. Can doubling up in the first few hands have such a prize money effect (is this +ev?) that you can take a 45/50, 50/50, 55/45, 60/40, or 70/30 chance? After a 500 chip bet preflop id assume i'm pot commited after making a flop bet. and if i fold at any point after the preflop bet, i really only have one more shot to play poker before the chips and levels have me shoving no?

And furthermore wouldn't betting preflop be loose play? Its can't be called tight play right? I've always read to play tight/aggresive early on, and although its aggresive I can't think that its tight. But I wonder if doubling up early has large effect on the money one wins from tournements.

DrTyore

darbday;200833 wroteDrTyore and others,

I had a long conversation with myself for a moment and the summary of it came as a question. Can doubling up in the first few hands have such a prize money effect (is this +ev?) that you can take a 45/50, 50/50, 55/45, 60/40, or 70/30 chance? After a 500 chip bet preflop id assume i'm pot commited after making a flop bet. and if i fold at any point after the preflop bet, i really only have one more shot to play poker before the chips and levels have me shoving no?

And furthermore wouldn't betting preflop be loose play? Its can't be called tight play right? I've always read to play tight/aggresive early on, and although its aggresive I can't think that its tight. But I wonder if doubling up early has large effect on the money one wins from tournements.

ReefAquarium

darbday;200833 wrote But I wonder if doubling up early has large effect on the money one wins from tournements.

Doubling up early has a *huge* effect on your chip utility in $1T

You know how to play postflop/deep ....

You need deep stacks to take advantage of that ....

It's not like your opponents play game theory correct poker ...

I bet the structure of this tourney is very fast/turbo.

You don't have time to wait around for TT+ AK+

Put the whip to AQ.

In a slow, tough tourney you might not want to bet AQ because you don't want to fold out Q7, A8...

Here that's not the case.

[deleted]

DrTyore;200915 wroteBeing tight aggressive means that you raise only your best hands.

AQ is one of the top hands in poker, so you should raise with it. If you DON'T raise, you're being tight / passive. Think about it, what's better than AQ? AA, KK, QQ, and AK. So, it's one of the top % of hands in poker....

If you think raising with AQ is loose, then you're not tight, you're a nit.

Mark

right on, ok so im looking at AQo as being worse than 22 becuase of preflop percentage but i know better than that. i have AQ in my top starting hands. im using to much info. but if a guy shoves all in, im calling with with any read that hes a medicore player, or calling anyways because of the expected competition? I just think some donk is going all in with a pokect pair and if i call im on the losing end, if i fold i lost a substantial chip stack. I would like to know though that i can hand some beat in exchange for doubling up, ie losing 2 tourney's to double up early in one...

[deleted]

ReefAquarium;200918 wroteDoubling up early has a *huge* effect on your chip utility in $1T

You know how to play postflop/deep ....

You need deep stacks to take advantage of that ....

It's not like your opponents play game theory correct poker ...

I bet the structure of this tourney is very fast/turbo.

You don't have time to wait around for TT+ AK+

Put the whip to AQ.

In a slow, tough tourney you might not want to bet AQ because you don't want to fold out Q7, A8...

Here that's not the case.

i realize this for turbos and speeds but i was told by others on this forum that party poker standard tourney's have some of the highest survial times or whatever thats called.

jdAA88

darbday;200831 wrotedo you not have any of these limpers on a pocket pair?

Yeah one or two might but on most flops they will not be able to continue because of overcards.