Pushing with any two....

Quinner

Playing a fpp tourney on stars when this happened, it looked like a possible profitable shove here with any two cards, the two players in the pot already haven't shown significant strength, or at least my read on them is that they aren't super super strong. While I don't actually understand the math behind fold equity so much, I do know that these guys have to call 1/3 - 1/2 their stack to make this call, and if they both fold I almost double up. It didn't work here (almost, stupid TURN CARD!) But it's an illustration of new aggressive things I'm trying out and I'd like to hear some feedback.

PokerStars Game #26497983452: Tournament #144545751, 10FPP Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/03/29 13:10:20 ET
Table '144545751 602' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Quinner777 (2020 in chips)
Seat 2: Seujiro_Hiko (3675 in chips)
Seat 3: JudyGrnEyes (4140 in chips)
Seat 4: SZERENCSES (3640 in chips)
Seat 5: NOIR*GIRARD (1020 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: NaviBazsi (2445 in chips)
Seat 7: moncu25 (4155 in chips)
Seat 8: ROL.X.WIL 68 (3645 in chips)
Seat 9: larry1dart (3875 in chips)
Quinner777: posts the ante 25
Seujiro_Hiko: posts the ante 25
JudyGrnEyes: posts the ante 25
SZERENCSES: posts the ante 25
NOIR*GIRARD: posts the ante 25
NaviBazsi: posts the ante 25
moncu25: posts the ante 25
ROL.X.WIL 68: posts the ante 25
larry1dart: posts the ante 25
larry1dart: posts small blind 125
Quinner777: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [4h 3s]
Seujiro_Hiko has timed out
Seujiro_Hiko: folds
Seujiro_Hiko is sitting out
JudyGrnEyes: raises 250 to 500
SZERENCSES: folds
NOIR*GIRARD: folds
NaviBazsi: folds
moncu25: calls 500
ROL.X.WIL 68: folds
larry1dart: folds
Quinner777: raises 1495 to 1995 and is all-in
JudyGrnEyes: calls 1495
moncu25: calls 1495
*** FLOP *** [3c 3h 8d]
JudyGrnEyes: checks
moncu25: bets 2135 and is all-in
JudyGrnEyes: calls 2120 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (15) returned to moncu25
*** TURN *** [3c 3h 8d] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [3c 3h 8d 8s] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JudyGrnEyes: shows [Jd As] (two pair, Eights and Threes)
moncu25: shows [8h Kh] (a full house, Eights full of Threes)
moncu25 collected 4240 from side pot
Quinner777: shows [4h 3s] (a full house, Threes full of Eights)
moncu25 collected 6335 from main pot
Seujiro_Hiko has returned
TomcaTRJ is connected

I have no clue what K8 is doing here, I think it was a terrible call by him but whatevs. I guess the only thing that really puts me in trouble here is if one of the players has a pocket pair, as that would take my chances of winning way down. As it was I had two live cards and almost won the pot. Probably should have....K8???? Assuming only AJ called I'm getting close to 4 to 1 on my money being only a slight underdog, so I think this was a good play by me, but feel free to disagree with explanation.

Cerberus

Good play for a different level but great play to try at this level.

You make that play in even a $5 or $10 game, you've got a good shot to take that down preflop. FPP tourney, they're calling with any AX.

Making that play here was good though, as even if it didn't work, it's not like you're in a $2000 game.

Henjon

Hallo. I'm new at pf.ca. And what's worse, I'm even not a canadian :) I'm from Sweden and I found this site because it's one of the few pokerforums that's not blocked by the Internet filter at my work (cathegory Gambling). Even leaving that aside I think you have a nice forum and I may do some occasional posts here. Please excuse any language errors - English is not my first language.

To be honest I don't like your move here. To make it profitable you have to be convinced that you have some fold equity here. You have a very weak hand and if you think you're winning odds are acceptable even though, ask yourself: Would you have called an allin yourself?

Given the level and given the fact that you have two persons in the pot already I'd say you have NO fold equity here. A small raise from EP could indicate anything from a somewhat slowplayed big hand or something like you actually found yourself up against (A with a decent kicker). Under those circumstances the chance you'll get a call here is very high. And if player 1 should fold you cannot be sure that player 2 who already has shown a villingness to put money in the pot will do the same thing.

I would almost never try to re-steal with more than one player in the pot. In fact I'm very cautious when it comes to pushing even if there's only on limper in the pot. Because more often than you might think he will call, even with a not-so-good-hand. Even if you're hand is slightly better (which would not be the case here obviously) you need better odds to make the play profitable in the long run (unless your M isn't so low that a gambling move might be justified). Of course calling twice with K8 is a bad play. But the fact is that you must adjust your pushing range to your opponents - else HIS bad play will damage you our both of you.

It's true that in a freeroll or semi-freeroll you might play more loose because you're not putting anything (or very little) at risk. And if your lucky with your gambling you can get a huge stack in a short vile. But pushing with 43off when you expect to have a call isn't what I call gambling, it's more suicide by poker ;) I prefer to stay alive in the tournament a bit longer and wait for a better opportunity.

blackmagicz

I like the move but I don't like the fact you did it into a min raise and a flat call. The squeeze is best used when you have multiple limpers (say 3-4) because what you are relying on is what my buddy likes to refer to as the domino effect.

IE:

MP calls 30
MP+1 calls 30

Cut off and button say "oh well I am getting X odds to call with my crap to see if it hits"

So now you have 120 of dead money technically in the pot.....you are sitting either in the blinds and decide now to make it 180 preflop to go. So effectively now those 4 players have a decision.....you may get 1 caller but since he/she limped pre you can't give her credit for a huge holding unless this squeeze has been done on the table previously and they were looking to trap.

Most players however are not too aware of table dynamics at the lower levels you are able to get away with this and then C-bet with 85% probability you take it down. Even better when you hit the flop you get paid off if the other player has a monster and was slow playing it (IE you flop 2 pair, trips etc)

I am not very comfortable trying to shove into a raised pot because:

A - 34 doesn't play well post flop
B - You are hoping that 1 of them doesn't wake up with any implied odds to call (figure at that point with antes/plus blinds plus raiser and caller almost anyone who made the initial raise preflop can call off their stack with AX cause they are getting implied odds to do so and worse case scenario they are 60/40 - this is figuring AA or KK would just 3 bet their bet etc....)

As pointed out before this works also better in real money situation not FPPs as well.

Keep working on your game and adding weapons to your arsenal.

Cheers

BBC Z

10FPP Hold'em No Limit

If you wanna beat freerollers or micromicrolimit NL players, just play extremely straightforward with big hands. Forget about the tricky shit that would get a thinking player to fold.

Quinner

Henjon;182588 wrote

Given the level and given the fact that you have two persons in the pot already I'd say you have NO fold equity here.

Considering they both called I'm going to have to wholeheartedly agree. I'll play these small stakes mostly straightforward in the future untill I have a big enough bankroll to move up.