New Player Question

Quinner

This is a hand I played a few days ago, Considering the result I think I played it pretty badly.

Villain has been chasing (and hitting) cards all throughout this sit'n'go, which is how he got to be such a big stack. I think I played this badly, but considering the circumstances and what happened on the river I'd just like to hear some feedback.

*********** # 3 **************
PokerStars Game #26031864930: Tournament #148448228, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2009/03/16 16:11:08 ET
Table '148448228 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Tom91326 (1690 in chips)
Seat 3: Feri84 (2315 in chips)
Seat 4: Quinner777 (2020 in chips)
Seat 6: tckid (1310 in chips)
Seat 8: WILKS77 (2995 in chips)
Seat 9: Optim979 (3170 in chips)
Feri84: posts small blind 50
Quinner777: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [9s Qs]
tckid: folds
WILKS77: calls 100
Optim979: calls 100
Tom91326: folds
Feri84: calls 50
Quinner777: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jh Qd Th]
Feri84: checks
Quinner777: bets 300
WILKS77: folds
Optim979: calls 300
Feri84: folds
*** TURN *** [Jh Qd Th] [6c]
Quinner777: bets 600
Optim979: calls 600
*** RIVER *** [Jh Qd Th 6c] [Ad]
Quinner777: checks
Optim979: bets 500
Quinner777: calls 500
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Optim979: shows [Kc Ts] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Quinner777: mucks hand
Optim979 collected 3200 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3200 | Rake 0
Board [Jh Qd Th 6c Ad]
Seat 1: Tom91326 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Feri84 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Quinner777 (big blind) mucked [9s Qs]
Seat 6: tckid folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: WILKS77 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Optim979 showed [Kc Ts] and won (3200) with a straight, Ten to Ace

Obviously, I put him on a draw here or slow playing a big hand, but much much much more likely a draw considering how he had been playing so far. If he just shoved me in on the river I was just going to fold, but the smallish bet made me wonder if he missed the flush draw, so then I had to see what garbage he had been calling me with.
My question: How badly did I play this, and how would some of the other forumer's have done differently. Thanks for any advice.

JohnnieH

In a $1 game your only option is to shove the flop, which is -EV in the long run.

As you played it, your turn bet was to small. If you think you're ahead, get your chips in the middle and hang on to your hat.

Graham

If you put him on a draw, why did you check the turn and then proceed to just call a bet that was smaller than the flop bet.

Quinner

Mostly because I suck and wasn't sure what he had on a board like that, he could easily have two pair or a straight or Q with better kicker, but it seemed like a draw, I see now that I just have to shove this flop and hope for the best. Thanks for the advice.

PokerKai

Quinner;180718 wrote I see now that I just have to shove this flop and hope for the best.

Thats the worst thing you can do.

I think you played it fine up until the river call. Hands that you lose arent always played poorly and hands you win arent always played well. Try to think about hands in a more street by street basis rather then the results.

FLOP: its reasonable a Q is the best hand, a PSB is fine since that board is drawy.

TURN: its not likely our opponent has us beat and is just calling with such a drawy board, unless hes only the mega nuts of AhKh, Kh9h or 9h8h. so given that, its not a bad idea to bet for value and protection.

RIVER: any pair type hands he has that whiffed are likely just going to check back...your only hoping to get value from a missed flush draw but 500 is just so clearly a value bet. really should fold...it might only seem like 500...but given the size of your stack, that 500 is going to be very important in coming hands.

blackmagicz

Tough spot. I would have raised preflop to define hand strength, put it up to 500 and see what you get. Most likely you would have been playing heads up. I don't think the villian would be playing for stacks on the flop.

I don't see the villian calling a bet on the flop once you fire out a pot sized bet. He is effectively playing for stacks at that point and with bottom pair he will most likely give you credit for a monster.

PokerKai

blackmagicz;180868 wroteTough spot. I would have raised preflop to define hand strength, put it up to 500 and see what you get. Most likely you would have been playing heads up. I don't think the villian would be playing for stacks on the flop.

Raising preflop doesnt tell us anything about hand strength in this situation...ideally wed like to raise enough to make everybody fold. If they call...well, we already knew that Q9 probably isnt the best hand going into the situation.

blackmagicz

PokerKai;181033 wroteRaising preflop doesnt tell us anything about hand strength in this situation...ideally wed like to raise enough to make everybody fold. If they call...well, we already knew that Q9 probably isnt the best hand going into the situation.

I disagree...if you raise and then get called you are probably still ahead in theory. Any stronger hand is raising preflop or re-raising you back.

Also with putting a raise in OOP when you bet the flop your hand strength has more merit in the fact that it looks like AQ+ could have come in for a raise preflop and you are scared of a drawy board.

Most likely K10 is a fold here preflop to a substantial raise. That is what I am trying to convey.

Quinner

blackmagicz;181036 wroteI disagree...if you raise and then get called you are probably still ahead in theory. Any stronger hand is raising preflop or re-raising you back.

Also with putting a raise in OOP when you bet the flop your hand strength has more merit in the fact that it looks like AQ+ could have come in for a raise preflop and you are scared of a drawy board.

Most likely K10 is a fold here preflop to a substantial raise. That is what I am trying to convey.

I tend to like your thinking here, and it makes all my decisions easier on the flop which is a bonus. It's just never a spot I would expect to be plus EV in, but thinking again about it, its a perfect bluff/semi-bluff spot for alot of flops. Unless one of the limping players was trapping (very unlikely) I probably have the best of it in this particular situation.

Kristy

tl;dr Blackmagicz is right, bet my panties on whatever he advises.

AcidJoe

You'd bet your panties on anything you thought might be +EV

Just saying

blackmagicz

Kristy_Sea;181639 wrotetl;dr Blackmagicz is right, bet my panties on whatever he advises.

LMAO....that is -ev

Cerberus

First thing's first, with a $1 buy in, anyone with KX is going to call that bet on the flop. I'm not saying they're right to call, just saying that they will.

You played this hand very well given the situation. You flop top pair out of position, so you bet 75% of the pot. Normally I'd say bet more, but you already got a read on him as a chaser, so he's going to call 75% or 750%. Same with the turn bet, you know he's going to chase, so you up the bet but not enough that it you are overly committed if he hits the river. The check on the river was good too. You've got this guy pegged for exactly what he is, so he probably hit that river. The only mistake, if you can call it that, was not trusting your instincts on this guy. You made a good read on him throughout the sng, so he either was chasing the A high flush or had the K. Either way, that river beat you.

Remember to trust your reads. My guess is, if you fold, this is one of those guys that has to show when he hits a hand, so you're getting the information for free on the river.

Best thing to take from all this is that you're capable of getting reads on people like that. Now you just need to trust those reads and you'll be fine :D

[deleted]

"but the smallish bet made me wonder if he missed the flush draw, so then I had to see what garbage he had been calling me with."

Villain: I'm going to make a smallish bet hoping he thinks i missed my flush draw and wants to look up my cards (which are the nuts).

I've read in 2 separate posts Quinner say he made the call to look the other player up. Although that can be good for learning in long long term its a terrible reason to make a call for a tourney or a table. Calls like that should have better primary reason, and the "secondary benefit" is getting to see the other player's hand.

I could be wrong but i just think its one of the most expensive plays in poker.

And I don't like the bet on the flop, top pair is not a good hand on a board with a flush draw and a possible straight. If you make your low straight with a k can you really make a call. I seriously think he was just throwing away money and can't possible make a call to a re raise, no matter what the turn and the river are.