Dry side pot conversation again

The Prophet 22

So I am playing at Dave's tournament in Kitchener yesterday. Roger was to my right and short stacked. I had been eyeing his chips for quite some time. Ther were 2 limpers from guys who had been extremely agressive all day. We had 10 at the final table to start and I think we were down to eight. The top 5 paid so still 3 awyway from the money. Roger pushes on the 2 limpers and I call as do the limpers. With the antes I believe ther is about 15k. Flop comes King high everyone checks. The turn is a Jack checked to me and I go all in. I get scolded by one gentlemen, saying it is a dry side pot and shouldn't not have made that bet.

While I agree I should have made a huge over bet, I tried to explain, I had the best hiand in my mind so I bet it. My goal was to gather chips to compete with Peteski. With the stack he had I need chips to keep him from using his stack as a weapon against me with any to cards. He could not see the logic of betting with the percieved best hand and that the focus should be on taking a player out.

Thoughts?

JohnnieH

If you think you're ahead, you bet to isolate.

Bluffing into a dry side pot is a bad move.

waltsfriend

What were the blind levels at this point? What were the other stack sizes at the table?

Hobbes

JohnnieH;157884 wroteIf you think you're ahead, you bet to isolate.

Bluffing into a dry side pot is a bad move.

+1 esp into a significant main pot

pkrfce9

The Prophet 22;157882 wrote I get scolded by one gentlemen, saying it is a dry side pot and shouldn't not have made that bet.

YOU tell him to **** off. note, it has to be YOU.

he should not be educating the fishes. just tell him the play speaks for itself and laugh.

moose

hand?

The Prophet 22

pkrfce9;157902 wroteYOU tell him to **** off. note, it has to be YOU.

he should not be educating the fishes. just tell him the play speaks for itself and laugh.

You had to throw that in my face again. I tell you ONCE about educating the fishes and you give it back. Well I guess I deserve it. LOL

Your right the hand did speak for itself. I knew I had the best hand and wasn't going to be drawn out on with the Ace. My guess is the player who complained the most probably had an Ace rag and was hoping to hit for his limp. If I had chose to raise him out of the had pre-flop, so that I could isolate and then take my chance would he still have complained? Again chance are yes.

To answer some of the other questions, I think I was second in chips, but still way behind Peteski. The two other guys in the hand had been hyper aggressive all day and showing big bluffs, turning over 74 off, and 53off, Q2 off, etc after having made a raise of 8x the bb. They hit some are part of these hand, one of the guys made a straight and the other guy bluffed Buzzzardd off his hand . It was my first all-in of the day in a pushing situation, other than calling g2's all-in. I had the other two guys covered. So if I was correct, I wanted them to pay to see the last card and if they were wrong they too would be gone and we be on the bubble.

I guess my question is and I tried to do a poll but can't figure it out,

Do you ever think there is an appropriate time to bet into a dry side pot ?

1)yes
2)no

Maybe one of you smarter guys can write it up. Greg is right. I think inexperience and or new players believe it is always right to check it down.

westside8

If you are bluffing, then don't. If you have a hand, bet it to get value from it.

Kristy

Yo VIP, let's kick it

(Edited: because it was a repost, the forum is hella-slow today)

Kristy

This thread R travesty.

a: What exactly did you have
b: What were the blinds and stack sizes of ALL involved
c: If you thought you were ahead why are you making "HUGE OVERBETS" instead of something more call-able
d: Vanilla Ice
e: I LOVE bluffing dry side pots with this many people, you make a little sucker bet on the flop and steal all the forced calls on the turn; they cannot call you without ridiculously strong hands. So when they fold you are free rolling or profiting with a chance to knock out the short stack for even more. Eff all this nonsense about getting to the money, your job is to abuse shorter stacks and accumulate chips...with second stack you don't give a fuck who finishes 7th.
f: When in a game always respond to a coach with: "That's the stupidest thing I've EVER heard" and then call the floor over and discuss how you're uncomfortable taking money from the mentally handicapped....(The result is not esp. + but always hillarious)

Yeah, I'm a bitch...but try not to dwell on the irrelevant in your reposts.

Kristy

I'm actually just sitting around waiting for 800Over's repost

Edit: Dammit, he gave up, his shit is always gold!

Pantsonfire

There are a lot of factors when it comes to side pots and tournaments. If we are nowhere near the bubble, I just play normal. If we are near the bubble or on it, I will play whatever suits me the best. If I have a lot of chips and the pot is small, I'll play for shortie to exit. If I need those chips in the pot, I'll push to get them if I have a hand especially one that needs protecting.

I saw a hand where it was shortie was up against two others. They both checked it down and Otherguy1 bet about half pot on the river. Otherguy2 typed something rude in the chat box and called. Otherguy2 showed top set which he flopped while Otherguy1 showed the runner-runner nut flush.

Let's hope Otherguy2 and every player like him don't figure out their problem.

So the correct answer to getting scolded is: "Sorry, I got overexcited there and forgot what I was doing".

800OVER

The Prophet 22;157994 wrote
Do you ever think there is an appropriate time to bet into a dry side pot ?

1)yes
2)no

QUOTE]

YES

but Sandy's question about the stack sizes is important. I'll use an example*

BLinds 50-100

Have AK with 5000 chips....I raise to 300.....1 caller and big blind goes all in/calls short with only 150. I play this hand like he's not even in the hand. I'm playing against the 1 full caller. So if the flop comes low I will probably CB.

With deep stacks it's not a problem.....just make sure you have some kind of hand. If I'm down to 3 players....i'm not betting anything but a monster.(ie flush draw)

So yes sometimes it's ok.....but if you're bluffing....then you deserve to have your AA cracked by 72o

EDIT: I'd bet 2pairs or better all day long....no matter what the stacks/situation.

The Prophet 22

800OVER;158018 wrote
The Prophet 22;157994 wrote
Do you ever think there is an appropriate time to bet into a dry side pot ?

1)yes
2)no

QUOTE]

YES

but Sandy's question about the stack sizes is important. I'll use an example*

BLinds 50-100

Have AK with 5000 chips....I raise to 300.....1 caller and big blind goes all in/calls short with only 150. I play this hand like he's not even in the hand. I'm playing against the 1 full caller. So if the flop comes low I will probably CB.

With deep stacks it's not a problem.....just make sure you have some kind of hand. If I'm down to 3 players....i'm not betting anything but a monster.(ie flush draw)

So yes sometimes it's ok.....but if you're bluffing....then you deserve to have your AA cracked by 72o

EDIT: I'd bet 2pairs or better all day long....no matter what the stacks/situation.
I think I had around 120k blinds were 500/1000 8 players left in the tournament top 5 get paid. I was second in chips at the table and had all three guys who were in the hand covered and if I was wrong on the situation, I still would have had 80k left.

My question is more philosophical than anything.

T8urmoney

It's always OK to bet into a dry side pot with a made hand. Bluffing into a dry side makes absolutely no sense to me.......but I see it all the time, especially online. I have a simple plan I use.....if I'm short stacked need the pot, I'll go all in on the flop if make a hand, but usually I'd have done that preflop if I had called. If I have a bigstack...I'll check down (even the nuts)....if someone feels the urge to bet....they will get smacked.

My thinking is a tournament with one less player is more valuable than a small pot that doesn't increase my stack significantly.

InsaneGuy

I hate those little fuckers in Satellite when we're close to the bubble to bet on the fucking river and lose the pot and triple/quadriple up some guy just cuz they thought they could be heads up... fucking asshole.

Other than that, if you do have a hand well it's more than ok to bet and win the pot.

Exemple that happended in a tourney I was playing (live fking donkfest freeroll to bigger freeroll to bigger freeroll to big buy in mtt)

anyways...

I'm BB
2 callers, I have about 15kk stack, sb goes all in for his last 7-8k
I have JJ

I call, one other guy also calls.

Flop is something like 26J rainbow

I push he folds sb has Arag, I win.

Table is like "haha nub pushed in a dryside pot) (but in french, and most french quebecers who play poker are fucking retarded no job freeroll seeking faggot).

Fuck them they don't know shit.

wow I feel better now that this is out of my system.

edit: spelling
edit2: added a line.

pkrfce9

InsaneGuy;159754 wrotemost french quebecers who play poker are fucking retarded no job freeroll seeking faggot

"wow. that's pretty racist. but true."
- rod

InsaneGuy

pkrfce9;159780 wrote"wow. that's pretty racist. but true."
- rod

Not sure but I don't think I can be racist of my own race?
That wouldn't make sense :)

herschelw

Both bluffing and betting with the best hand into a dry side pot can actually make sense. First let's talk about bluffing into a dry side. let's say there's one player allin and you and another player still both have 10k chips behind roughly. The main pot is 10k chips and you have :ac:kc. The flop is :qd:8s:5h. If you think the other player in the pot(who still has chips) is likely to have a small pair and would likely be willing to fold it or if you think they likely have air it makes sense for you to bet or shove into the dry side. They may fold the best hand and you could very possibly be ahead of the player who's allin. Even if you arent ahead of the player who is allin you'll typically have outs to the best hand and doubling your stack is worth the risk.
If this is a multitable tournament with a top heavy payout structure you should be focused on winning the tournament and not moving up the payout scale.

Now if you have a hand like :6s:ah on a :3c:2s:6h flop and your opponent who still has chips behind is likely to have two face cards then this is also a spot where you should be betting into a dry side pot to keep the other player from drawing out on you. If they call then fine they paid bad odds to float you and you can play the turn based on where you ranged them and the card that fell.

To further explain why this makes sense let's discuss it on a metagame level. Most players(especially live players) think it's horrible to bet into a dry side to bluff so they will fold much much tighter to your bet and this allows you to take them off the best hand at times when you have a hand that is likely to improve often. Busting other players isnt the goal in poker. Getting all the chips is the goal.

InsaneGuy

Gjust vlgo allin!

Allin``>jesucms