Pocket jacks on the Bubble

Johnith

So heres the situation. I was playing a Sit N Go last night and i was delt JJ on the button, 4 players remain, i have just above an average stack size, and the player under the gun raises 6x the big blind, i havent seen him make a raise this big ever in the game so far. The next guy folds and the action is to me... I give the guy respect for his raise and fold, im about 90% sure my play was way too tight. The i ended up calling an all-in bet the very next hand with AK suited so basically, am i an idiot for folding pocket jacks to a pot i could afford to get involved in rather than risking it all with AK suited?

cadillac

Ummm hi. Stack sizes and blinds are a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit helpful here

Hellmuth's Mole

Need to know the percentage of your stack that was that 6X BB raise. The way he played it he had a monster or was overbetting to protect a weaker hand. You have to form the opinion at the table. Folding there is tough but not out of the question.

Johnith

Calling the raise would have practically made me pot committed, it would have been like 1/3rd of my stack and the other guy had me covered in chips.

cadillac

With 18ish BB I probably get it in here and hope to dodge him hitting his AK

GTA Poker

That big a raise I would typically put him on a big ace or a smaller pair (66 -TT/(QQ)) that he doesn't really want action with. I would push as doubling gives you a much greater expectation at first. If you lose just play another. Push is correct given my guess at his range even if you include AA/KK.

Pantsonfire

Johnith;151613 wroteCalling the raise would have practically made me pot committed, it would have been like 1/3rd of my stack and the other guy had me covered in chips.

I'd need about five good reasons not the push here and I can't even come up with one.

ReefAquarium

To get a definitive answer you need to start plugging hands into and ICM calculator. (or ask Ryan)

Since there is a big difference between 4th and 3rd (0% vs 20%) my guess is that you need to play very very tight....

I'd call here with KK or AA.

GTA Poker

ReefAquarium;151675 wroteTo get a definitive answer you need to start plugging hands into and ICM calculator. (or ask Ryan)

Since there is a big difference between 4th and 3rd (0% vs 20%) my guess is that you need to play very very tight....

I'd call here with KK or AA.

But...there's a great difference between 1st and 3rd, no? I think doubling gives you a big advantage for first so pushing is the play. Would be cool to see some ICM numbers though.

pkrfce9

ReefAquarium;151675 wroteTo get a definitive answer you need to start plugging hands into and ICM calculator. (or ask Ryan)

Since there is a big difference between 4th and 3rd (0% vs 20%) my guess is that you need to play very very tight....

I'd call here with KK or AA.

yes, icm is the answer but first you need to know your opponent's range...
what's his play been like, stack sizes, blah blah blah?

and there is no friggin way you call here (unless you are trying to be incredibly deceptive and bust everyone this hand). you push if you play it!

ReefAquarium

pkrfce9;151692 wroteyes, icm is the answer but first you need to know your opponent's range...
what's his play been like, stack sizes, blah blah blah?

and there is no friggin way you call here (unless you are trying to be incredibly deceptive and bust everyone this hand). you push if you play it!

True that,

I probably meant you need a monster to play in this situation.

BlondeFish

ReefAquarium;151675 wroteask Ryan

Who is Ryan? Unless Johnith posts the blinds, stack sizes and payout structure, one can't do the ICM calculations. I can take a wild guess that it is correct to fold JJ and AKs on the bubble, but IT DEPENDS on the numbers.

SirWatts

I can't really imagine doing anything but shoving here. ICM is going to make close decisions folds but this seems like a double fist pump shove. Of course stack sizes are obviously very important, and you weren't the button, 4-handed, and 3rd to act in this hand unless there's a dead SB.

GTA Poker

BlondeFish;151773 wroteWho is Ryan? Unless Johnith posts the blinds, stack sizes and payout structure, one can't do the ICM calculations. I can take a wild guess that it is correct to fold JJ and AKs on the bubble, but IT DEPENDS on the numbers.

I don't see how this isn't a push.

pkrfce9

GTA Poker;151775 wroteI don't see how this isn't a push.

bubble situations are the reason math was invented

GTA Poker

pkrfce9;151796 wrotebubble situations are the reason math was invented

they are also the reason people push light -- believe it or not we aren't the only ones with ICM info -- you need a range to do the math, no?