Bad cards or playing too tight?

WaterLooser

$5.50, 18 pers SnG on PStars. Here are my stats. I tried to add the entire HH as an attachment, but there is a limit of 19K. Anyone got a tip of where to "host" the file? I will provide coles notes tomorrow after I have a little more time to edit/select hands.

138 hands played and saw flop:
- 7 times out of 31 while in small blind (23%)
- 19 times out of 31 while in big blind (61%)
- 9 times out of 76 in other positions (12%)
- a total of 35 times out of 138 (25%)

Given the above - what place do you think I finished?

compuease

Well nothing to do with your play but 138 hands would mean over 2 hrs and most 2 table sng's end around that point or earlier so you must have been 1st or 2nd.... lol

WaterLooser

Ok, I trimmed the attachment to just the hands dealt, no chips, no results, just the cards. Unix commands rock (especially if you have a program that runs them on windows - shameless plug for MKS Toolkit)

See attached.

InsaneGuy

There's a couple decent hand... and a couple "I'll see a flop hand" also... it's not THAT bad (well I think...)

Since there's no position or anything... I'll post the hand you could have played and (maybe) made money with (let's be loose a little).

Dealt to JollietJake [Jh Ts]
Dealt to JollietJake [Js As]
Dealt to JollietJake [9d 9s]
Dealt to JollietJake [As 9s]
Dealt to JollietJake [9s 8c] (pos dependant)
Dealt to JollietJake [9c Td] (same as above)
Dealt to JollietJake [9h 9c]
Dealt to JollietJake [Jh Kh]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ks Kh]
Dealt to JollietJake [Kd Qs]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ah Qc]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ah Jd]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ts Ks]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qs 9s]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qd Qc]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ac Th]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qd Jc]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qh Kh]

It's NOT that bad... You get a couple big pots with key hands and you're good to go... Also I don't remember who said it but in a SnG you need a couple key hands that you can double up with and you're fine... 18 person you need to finish 4th to make the money (though let's be honest unless you finish 3rd the payout sucks ass).

With those hands unless you get really crap flop you can easily make it to the final 4... but that's my opinion :)

Redington

WaterLooser;148043 wrote$5.50, 18 pers SnG on PStars. Here are my stats. I tried to add the entire HH as an attachment, but there is a limit of 19K. Anyone got a tip of where to "host" the file? I will provide coles notes tomorrow after I have a little more time to edit/select hands.

138 hands played and saw flop:
- 7 times out of 31 while in small blind (23%)
- 19 times out of 31 while in big blind (61%)
- 9 times out of 76 in other positions (12%)
- a total of 35 times out of 138 (25%)

Given the above - what place do you think I finished?

This really depends on your style, your saw flop % probably means you have a VPIP of <20. I have seen some very +ROI player in the $76 6 person SitnGos that have VPIP of 7%.

It is more a question of style.

For me, I like to push the button, and cutoff much more in the end game this push those % up. However in a $5 donkament you can probably be very successful just playing the top 5% of hands for commital raises preflop.

As for a guess, I don't think you finished in the money. Your % would have been skewed for headsup or 4 handed even.

Redington

Dealt to JollietJake [Jh Ts]
Dealt to JollietJake [Js As]
Dealt to JollietJake [9d 9s]
Dealt to JollietJake [As 9s]
Dealt to JollietJake [9s 8c] (pos dependant)
Dealt to JollietJake [9c Td] (same as above)
Dealt to JollietJake [9h 9c]
Dealt to JollietJake [Jh Kh]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ks Kh]
Dealt to JollietJake [Kd Qs]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ah Qc]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ah Jd]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ts Ks]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qs 9s]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qd Qc]
Dealt to JollietJake [Ac Th]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qd Jc]
Dealt to JollietJake [Qh Kh]

99, 99, KK, AQ, QQ are the only hands that should have been opened unless you had position (button or cutoff, maybe hjack if your behind is passive). On the button these hands can be opened for a raise if it is folded to you. If it is already opened you could three bet dependent on the initial opener. However you should not be calling with them. Always try and open for a raise or reraise.

Everything else is a fold (UTG- HJ) if you want to stick to pure fundamentalist SitNGo strategy.

Getting the most out of the premium hands becomes the utmost important strategy.

Pinhead

Redington;148288 wrote99, 99, KK, AQ, QQ are the only hands that should have been opened unless you had position (button or cutoff, maybe hjack if your behind is passive). On the button these hands can be opened for a raise if it is folded to you. If it is already opened you could three bet dependent on the initial opener. However you should not be calling with them. Always try and open for a raise or reraise.

Everything else is a fold (UTG- HJ) if you want to stick to pure fundamentalist SitNGo strategy.

Getting the most out of the premium hands becomes the utmost important strategy.

You want him to fold AJs in the HJ? Or did you miss those ones in the hand list?

Redington

Pinhead;148294 wroteYou want him to fold AJs in the HJ? Or did you miss those ones in the hand list?

If you go through the new strategy for SitNgo from the likes of moshman, or platner. Yes, AJs in the HJ is a borderline situation.

This is definetly a playable hand by most standards but if you get called, you are commiting your stack with AJ in these playing styles.

lets say you have 1700 and the blinds are 50-100. You open the HJ with AJs to 300 and get called by the button and the blinds fold.

the pot is 750 and you have 1400. the flop comes A72 rainbow.

Typcially you value bet this flop for 3/4 pot at 600 leaving you 800 back if you get called what do you do? Your commited to this pot and pretty much end up going broke with it.

Lets say you want to check raise - you let the button bet 3/4 pot and you have to commit your stack or fold at this point.

There is an arguememnt to be made that AJ is a fine hand and against typical calling ranges in a $5 sitNgo you can open your hand requirements.

In the $50-$100 SitNgos I would rather open J9s when folded to on the button then opening AJ in the Hijack.

compuease

From what I have read, Moshman theories are much more suited to higher buyin sit'n'go, maybe $50. and up? At the level most are playing $5. and $10. I think you would just be blowing your money using his techniques.. Your opponent has to have the "ability" to fold for his strategy to work. I really respect your thoughts Redington but we have to be careful what the target audience is.

Redington

compuease;148435 wroteFrom what I have read, Moshman theories are much more suited to higher buyin sit'n'go, maybe $50. Your opponent has to have the "ability" to fold for his strategy to work. I really respect your thoughts Redington but we have to be careful what the target audience is.

Actually, the 'theory' works in ANY sitngo situation. Playing extremely tight until High Blind levels is a very effective strategy.

The difference is you can turn AJs from unprofitable to profitable in lower buy ins because the general skill level is so bad and the calling ranges are going to be much wider. (VPIP of 25%+)

When you look at Sharkscope and see some of the best ROIs then watch these players they typically have very low VPIP%.

You may have positive ROI opening AJs in the HJ but I think you will have better ROI by folding it even in $5 donkaments, unless the blinds dictate that you should be pushing with it.

ReefAquarium

So do you/Mosman recommend for high blind situations?

Is it something like:
99 AK AQs in ep;
88 AQ in MP;
22, AJs KQs in LP;
for high blind situations always opening for a raise when folded to?

What do you consider high blinds? Is it M>10?

I'm playing much more than top 5% hands.

My vp$ip/pfr/af is 13/7/2.3 for NL and 18/9/2.8 for Limit.

WaterLooser

At the outset of this SnG, I intentionally decided to play uber-tight and then try to use table image later in the game for some good steals. A poker friend and I have been discussing at length strategy for these types of games. He was watching the game reminding me to not call off 3bb in LP with things like J9s in the early stages of the game..

I did finish first place. The late state of the game was actually very strange, in that everyone was playing very tight. I recognized this and won a lot of pots uncontested. This is the more telling stat which I left out before.

Pots won at showdown - 10 out of 10 (100%)
Pots won without showdown - 21

The other HU thread also has some good discussion. I had a similar experience and will post the entire HU part for comment (in a different thread, will leave this one to continue with it's line of discussion).

Thanks for the replies so far.