how to play winning fishes? VPIP 50+

Chuckieland

usually if a table has 3 fishes seated, it pretty much turn poker into bingo, because the fish got anything like a draw, bottom pair, or two over cards, they'll never fold their hand.

the game become very high variance.

this change my game alot.

i went from going after the fishes, to now i stay away from the fishes, and attack the TA, TAA, TAP, TPA.

reason: i notice, i will lose a big pot to the fishes, then tilt off rest of my stacked.

so i adjust my game, stay aways from the fishes, then wait for others to be on tilt, and took the tilt money.

it has work pretty well for me.

HERE IS MY PROBLEM NOW.

i know a few 50+ VPIP with AF less then 1 fishes which i contantly visit their table, and take the left over tilt $$.

luckbox fish has gotten out of control and winning 2-3 buyin per table, which leave no tilt money for me, when they suckout on others.

this has become consistant for the month of Oct.

in order to eat, i must try to get money off the fishes again.

yesturday, i took a shot with AA

raise pf with position, fish call

flop QJ2

fish check , i bet pot, fish call. ( i know he got a piece of the flop)
turn X

fish check, I CHECK ( i want to keep the pot small, he is not fold to the turn bet)
river 6

Fish check, I think about betting again, but I decide to CHECK .
Fish then comment: good check, i was gonna checkraise you on the river.
me: i was gonna bet, but accidentally click on check

Fish: you got lucky then.

me: ......lol....(whatever)

How will you play?
Note: i have over 7K HH with the winning fish, they are winning players in my PT record.

Bumbaclat

Chuckieland;128844 wrote
raise pf with position, fish call

how much did you raise?

Chuckieland

Bumbaclat;128853 wrotehow much did you raise?

when i raise, i click on betpot then raise.....
it doesn't matter, we all know how much the fish like J6 suited

ReefAquarium

Chuckieland;128844 wroteusually if a table has 3 fishes seated, it pretty much turn poker into bingo, because the fish got anything like a draw, bottom pair, or two over cards, they'll never fold their hand.

the game become very high variance.

this change my game alot.

i went from going after the fishes, to now i stay away from the fishes, and attack the TA, TAA, TAP, TPA.

reason: i notice, i will lose a big pot to the fishes, then tilt off rest of my stacked.

so i adjust my game, stay aways from the fishes, then wait for others to be on tilt, and took the tilt money.

it has work pretty well for me.

HERE IS MY PROBLEM NOW.

i know a few 50+ VPIP with AF less then 1 fishes which i contantly visit their table, and take the left over tilt $$.

luckbox fish has gotten out of control and winning 2-3 buyin per table, which leave no tilt money for me, when they suckout on others.

this has become consistant for the month of Oct.

in order to eat, i must try to get money off the fishes again.

yesturday, i took a shot with AA

raise pf with position, fish call

flop QJ2

fish check , i bet pot, fish call. ( i know he got a piece of the flop)
turn X

fish check, I CHECK ( i want to keep the pot small, he is not fold to the turn bet)
river 6

Fish check, I think about betting again, but I decide to CHECK .
Fish then comment: good check, i was gonna checkraise you on the river.
me: i was gonna bet, but accidentally click on check

Fish: you got lucky then.

me: ......lol....(whatever)

How will you play?
Note: i have over 7K HH with the winning fish, they are winning players in my PT record.

Are you sure you're not running into a talented LAG?

Playing LAG preflop is fine is you have good postflop skills.
If the players at your table are awful postflop it's okay to play lots of hands...
If the players really stink it's okay to play 50% or even 100%.

What stakes is this?

I'm not an expert but ...

How to play LAGS.

Buy in for minimum. Get it all in preflop or flop. If he comes in a pot and you have good cards drop the hammer on him. Don't get cute. Valuebet like a mofo.
Play tight.
Show him a hand.
Collect money.

// He makes mistakes by playing too many hands preflop.
// You have a short stack so you're not offering big implied odds.
// If he makes money by outplaying you postflop, he won't be able to since you'll be all in preflop or flop.

cadillac

LOL. Whats the problem Chuckie? You lost the absolute minimum.

You put $$$in the pot when you were ahead and none when you are behind. Good poker with your 1 pair hand.

ReefAquarium;128914 wroteAre you sure you're not running into a talented LAG?

I'm not an expert but ...

How to play LAGS.

Buy in for minimum. Get it all in preflop or flop. If he comes in a pot and you have good cards drop the hammer on him. Don't get cute. Valuebet like a mofo.
Play tight.
Show him a hand.
Collect money.

There are no talented LAG's at uNL (OK, none is a bit strong but I'm talking about a needle in a haystack here), and they definately don't play J6.

You often run into a LAG on a huge heater's playing against people who adjust their ranges incorrectly.

Buying in short is gay. If you consider this simply move to a better table.

Play against them from position.
Control the pot when you can.
If they are a maniac, don't play back when they have a hand. Turn into a calling station and let them bluff off their stack.

DrTyore

LAG's won't play J6?

Umm... go to youtube and type in "High Stakes Poker Season 4".... start with episode three...

Note Sammy Farha

Mark

ScoobyD

Buying in short is gay. If you consider this simply move to a better table.

Actually, I used to be of the same opinion, but I don't think it's a horrible move, so long as you recognize that you just need to play ABC very tight, and very aggressive poker because your opponent is making massive mistakes preflop (by not adjusting his range to your non-existant stack).

However, as you said, this limits your options against him (since you now can't play a lot of hands against him for implied odds value).

I think both options are viable, so long as you recognize where your edge is, and you know how to exploit it accordingly.

cadillac

DrTyore;128935 wroteLAG's won't play J6?

Umm... go to youtube and type in "High Stakes Poker Season 4".... start with episode three...

Note Sammy Farha

Mark

I think I said talented LAG's. What's Farha down in 4 seasons of HSP? 6-7 hundred grand? Gotta be 300K this year alone.

ReefAquarium

cadillac;128933 wroteLOL. Whats the problem Chuckie? You lost the absolute minimum.

You put $$$in the pot when you were ahead and none when you are behind. Good poker with your 1 pair hand.

There are no talented LAG's at uNL (OK, none is a bit strong but I'm talking about a needle in a haystack here), and they definately don't play J6.

You often run into a LAG on a huge heater's playing against people who adjust their ranges incorrectly.

Buying in short is gay. If you consider this simply move to a better table.

Play against them from position.
Control the pot when you can.
If they are a maniac, don't play back when they have a hand. Turn into a calling station and let them bluff off their stack.

I forgot to mention that the OP played the hand well.

I agree with your post for the most part.

I think buying in shortstack is the best strategy for the OP.

blueodum

There is no such thing as a winning fish.

Chuckieland

blueodum;129058 wroteThere is no such thing as a winning fish.

if you have PT, and have decent size of sample and players.
do auto rate player, and see how many player with fish icon that is in top 10 winning list.
my me, 4 fish in top 10
i'll go back and dig out another HH with this fish.
I went on to preflop raising war against a TAG
we 5 bet Preflop, and got all our money in preflop.
this due, think it's funny to cold call 3bet, , then cold call 5bet all-in with J4 sooted.
i know alot of player like ace-rag. but he really like his Jack-rag
TAG have just over 120-130BB, I have 180BB deep stack.
i make 2bux after the rake.
my main goal at poker is to destroy the top 4 winning fish on my PT list, because most of their profit came from me.

ReefAquarium

Chuckieland;129102 wroteif you have PT, and have decent size of sample and players.
do auto rate player, and see how many player with fish icon that is in top 10 winning list.
my me, 4 fish in top 10
i'll go back and dig out another HH with this fish.
I went on to preflop raising war against a TAG
we 5 bet Preflop, and got all our money in preflop.
this due, think it's funny to cold call 3bet, , then cold call 5bet all-in with J4 sooted.
i know alot of player like ace-rag. but he really like his Jack-rag
TAG have just over 120-130BB, I have 180BB deep stack.
i make 2bux after the rake.
my main goal at poker is to destroy the top 4 winning fish on my PT list, because most of their profit came from me.

Note:

You need 30,000 -> 50,000 hands to determine if a player is a winner within 3 standard deviations.

Winning over a period of 10,000 hands could be just luck.

blueodum

What makes you think auto-rate is accurate?

A winning player, by definition, is not a fish. If a winning player happens to have a high VPIP then either he's really a long-term loser and having a run of good luck, or he is really a winning player. Loose players can be winning players.

You seem to think that all loose players are fish, which is not the case.

PokerAddictz

blueodum;129058 wroteThere is no such thing as a winning fish.

No winning fish????

Go play on Full Tilt Poker for awhile man...

__________________
My 2 cents!
http://www.winatpokernow.com

Chuckieland

PokerAddictz;129324 wroteNo winning fish????

Go play on Full Tilt Poker for awhile man...

__________________
My 2 cents!
http://www.winatpokernow.com

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com
saw flop|[color:#C00000]saw showdown[/color]
UTG ($38.90)
UTG+1 ($5.55)
[color:#C00000]MP1 ($28.55)[/color]
MP2 ($19.85)
MP3 ($11.40)
Hero ($27.05)
[color:#C00000]Button ($21.05)[/color]
SB ($14.75)
BB ($5.65)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q:heart:, 7:club:.
[color:#666666]2 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]MP1 raises to $1[/color], MP2 calls $1, [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], Button calls $1, [color:#666666]2 folds[/color].
Flop: ($3.35) 8:diamond:, 9:diamond:, 9:club: [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
[color:#CC3333]MP1 bets $2.25[/color], MP2 folds, [color:#CC3333]Button raises to $4.5[/color], [color:#CC3333]MP1 raises to $16.85[/color], [color:#CC3333]Button raises to $24.55 (All-In)[/color], MP1 calls $3.20.
Turn: ($47.95) 9:heart: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]
.
River: ($47.95) A:club: [color:#0000FF](2 players, 1 all-in)[/color]
Final Pot: $47.95
Results in white below: [color:#FFFFFF]
MP1 has As Kc (full house, nines full of aces).
Button has 8h 8s (full house, nines full of eights).
Outcome: MP1 wins $47.95. [/color]

cadillac

PokerAddictz;129324 wroteNo winning fish?

Go play on Full Tilt Poker for awhile man...

Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.

Hobbes

Chuckie, your HH is very hard to read and imnotsurewhatyouaretryingtoshowwithit.

2good hands battling it out.

Pinhead

Chuckieland;128844 wroteflop QJ2

fish check , i bet pot, fish call. ( i know he got a piece of the flop)
turn X

fish check, I CHECK ( i want to keep the pot small, he is not fold to the turn bet)

For the OP, the fact that you don't remember the turn card means it was probably not a scare card like something that completes a straight or the board pairing. If you know he caught a piece of the flop and isn't folding to a bet here (I assume you mean with any hand, including weaker single pair hands) then why are you checking behind? If you're going to play scared against him then why bother staying at his table? I'm sure there are tons of other tables out there where you can play your game against players you are comfortable playing against and not feel like you need to shut down because this guy is just going to get lucky and win the pot anyway.

If you think he only got a small piece of the flop and will call any turn bet, shove. Is there any reason why would you not want to get the money in with him drawing to a likely 5 outs? Besides playing scared?

Also, why are we reading that maybe this guy is a good LAG from a HH where he never raises at any point in the hand? He calls a rase PF with a shitty suited hand, calls the flop with middle pair and then checks it down even when he makes 2 pair. Not a lot of aggression there.