Thread: TDA STUD and BBA rules changes coming

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  1. #1
    alces alces moose's Avatar
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    TDA STUD and BBA rules changes coming

    First, the rule allowing big bets on fourth street in stud high when a player pairs his or her door card will be nixed. According to Savage, the idea was brought to him by Barry Greenstein, who Savage noted has likely played more hands of stud than almost anyone. The point of the rule was apparently for cash players to end the hand more quickly and get on to the next.
    Barry Greenstein suggested nixing the fourth-street double bet in stud.Second, seventh street will always be dealt face down now. Previously, if a player was heads up and his or her river card was dealt face up, the opponent's card was dealt face up also. Now, random card theory will apply and the deck will be reshuffled.
    Finally, exposed cards on the initial deal that were supposed to be down cards will simply become up cards. According to Savage, the rule stemmed from people chafing at bringing in when they weren't "supposed to."
    Savage said he expected more pushback on the stud changes since many of the players who play stud most frequently are veterans of the game who likely don't want to change after so many years of doing things a certain way. However, he said it was actually old-school grinders like Greenstein who badgered him about getting things changed, and there was no opposition to speak of outside of a bit of squabbling about random card theory and when it should be applied.
    Big Blind Ante Nearly Resolved

    The most pressing issue coming into the summit, which led off the board's discussions on Friday, was big blind ante best practices. Nearly everyone agreed to go with ante first and keeping the size of the ante the same regardless of table size, but there were still some holdovers.
    One such holdover admitted he had been swayed.
    "I've given it a lot of thought over the last 12 hours or so," said Kenny Hallaert, who was one of the lone voices for big blind first. "And I might go towards ante first."
    The room broke out in applause but there continued to be a bit of dissent. Finally, Linda Johnson stressed that while big blind first was friendly to a short-stacked player, it was unfriendly to the rest of the players. Another TD concurred.
    "EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT SOMEONE GETS EQUITY IN THE BIG BLIND THAT THEY SHOULDN'T, THEY'RE TAKING IT FROM EVERYBODY ELSE"
    "If you're going to let them get out of posting the ante, it's no longer equal to everybody," he said.
    Justin Hammer echoed that as well.
    "Every single time that someone gets equity in the big blind that they shouldn't, they're taking it from everybody else," he said.
    To Bet or not to Be(t). That is the question. - Billy (Big Slick) Shakespeare
    RC III, XI, XIV, XXIII - Champions!

  2. #2
    Full PFC Member SeekTheGrail's Avatar
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    Was there any clarification on what a player can win if they have less than a BB left?

    I think this year there was a situation where the blinds were 1000-2000 with a 2000 BB ante. The SB only had 1000 left. Everyone else folded and they ruled that the BB pulled back 1000 from the BB and 1000 from the ante and the SB ended up winning 2000 to end up with 3000.

    In essence they said if you have a partial bet left you can only win that bet from the ante and from any other player. This makes sense to me.

  3. #3
    alces alces moose's Avatar
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    WSOP is using post the blind first this year and hasn't decided if they are going to align with the TDA proposed changes. Once it is settled then the rule changes will be official.

    If you use post ante first (as everyone should) then you are always eligible to win all the antes. This is no different from individual antes where if all you have is one ante remaining, you can win all the antes.

    eg if you have one 25 chip left on the button, everyone folds to you. You go all in. Blinds are 50-100 with 100 BB ante. Small blind folds and BB checks. BB wins 75 from the BB, 25 from the SB and the button is eligible to win 25 from the SB, 25 from the BB and 100 in antes for a main pot of 25+25+25+100 = 175


    Regardless the ruling you posted is incorrect. Any all in player has the opportunity to win all of the antes because the antes are being posted for each player by the big blind regardless if the BB is posted first or the ante is posted first.

    This is one of the arguments for posting antes first because if there are two short stacked players with a BB or less who go all in at the same time, one from the BB and one on the button - the button has already posted all of the antes for the orbit, whereas the BB has not. The BB should not be able to gain equity in this situation from the button by posting only the BB first and being able to win chips from the button. Thus antes should always be posted first.
    Last edited by moose; Jul 12,2019 at 04:02 PM.
    To Bet or not to Be(t). That is the question. - Billy (Big Slick) Shakespeare
    RC III, XI, XIV, XXIII - Champions!

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