Thread: Staking Guidelines

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  1. #1
    Accidental Poker Tourist BlondeFish's Avatar
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    Staking Guidelines

    Now that the first BAP of the year is already more than 50% sold-out, I predict there will be a lot more equity satellites and other staking involving forum members in this busy year for the WSOP-C, WPT, Casino Rama and other good-value tournaments in Canada. Below are the rules and guidelines I have been using for all my poker transactions. I may give out this forum link to horses and investors, so feel free to post improvements or questions.


    General

    1) Have any agreement in writing, and keep communicating. This can include email confirmations, texting/messaging, and shaking hands before each tournament starts.

    2) Cashable prizes such as tournament vouchers should be included in the shared winnings, unless otherwise stated. Other extra prizes such as trophies, rings, and leaderboard prize/championship are generally not included.
    For example, if pkrfce9 has sold a BAP for 50% costing him only $150 and wins 1st place at Rama, then he will get $3,420 cash (same as the investor group) + 50% of the future proceeds from the HPO voucher, whether it is up to ~U$350K first place prize (minus taxes) like last year or selling the voucher. If he agrees to swap an extra 5% with the BAP-er and luckily wins a voucher, then BAP-er will get 55% of any winnings; if the BAP-er decides to play the HPO on his own dime later, BAP-er obviously has 100% of himself with no swap as he is now risking his own money.

    3) Deals made during the tournament should be accounted for in the shared winnings, such as bubble donations. Try to talk to your stakers about proposed deals, especially if they are in the casino. If there are extra prizes such as for the top two, it may be simpler to play it out.

    4) If I make a final table ITM with somebody whom I have a staking arrangement with, I will disclose this to the TD. Please do not cheat like Fedor Holz and the WPT Fallsview colluders who folded pocket Aces preflop to their cheating partner's raise!

    5) For a tournament package that includes foreign currency buy-ins, I ask Siri the night before the tournament what the exchange rate to Canadian dollars is, then post the screen photo on Facebook. When I've cashed, I ask the investors if they want their % in the foreign currency or want it converted into the C$ equivalent before I leave the foreign country. I will then give their chosen currency next time they see me.

    6) Unless otherwise stated (UOS), shared winnings is what you receive in cash after deductions such as withholding taxes, e.g., 30% less for US tournaments. If you have only one person in the staking arrangement, it is more practical to agree to share any future refunds.
    For example, if a forumer ends up winning the HPO first place prize of ~U$347K and there are multiple stakers, he will get ~U$243K cash, & the stakers will get a % of this amount (plus tax refund if agreed to). The stakers can be asked which currency they want as in #4 above.

    7) Receipts, photos, and other proof of playing, cashes or deductions should be kept. If the winnings are different from what will be shown at GPI/HendonMob, try to keep some verifiable information, such as the contact information of the other cashers.

    8) If Buyer has more than one ticket for possible transfer to other players (e.g., Rama), buyer retains responsibility and ownership of the tickets until paid for in full by each player. Buyer has the right to choose who to give any unpaid ticket to. Buyer has the right to protect himself and sell the ticket if the potential buyer is not at the agreed-upon location and time, e.g., there were no-shows in the Rama tournament!

    9) Tips and other non-verifiable deductions are generally the responsibility of the stakee, unless there is an understanding with the stakers that it can be deducted from the winnings.

    10) For last-longer bets, it will be for the first bullet UOS. Bettors should agree if there are re-entries allowed, paying again for each re-entry, and multiple flights.


    Swaps

    1) A swap is a percentage exchange of action for a specific tournament entry that the players agree to play together. It does not apply to the entire poker series, re-entries, or late registering for a tournament where the other player(s) started earlier, unless specifically agreed to.

    2) If you have a bunch of swaps and other staking in a tournament, it is usually better to make a cash swap NET of that flight's buy-in. Otherwise, you can min-cash or get the bubble deal, and end up with less cash if the swaps are for gross winnings instead of net cash profit. Bubble donations, tips and some expenses may also be agreed upon to be deducted.
    For example, I am swapping with a couple of members for the WPT FPC $2,500 event for 5% each, net of the $2,500 buy-in. If one of us min-cashes for $4,399, then the swapper will get $94.95 [($4399 - $2500) * 5%]. I will be responsible for any tips I decide to give to casino staff.

    3) With the over-use of the terrible re-entry format, a swap is for the FIRST entry, unless otherwise stated. Swappers should agree beforehand what happens if somebody wants to re-enter one or more times before late registration or in a future flight.

    4) If it is for a bunch of tournaments that the swappers all play together during a festival/series, consider making it net of all their buy-ins, i.e., subtract the total swapped buy-ins before distributing any profits. For example, if two swappers cash in one tournament each but end up losing overall in the five tournaments they swapped during WPT Montreal, there is no point in giving each other any cash as they both lost money.


    Equity Satellites

    1) With Irunit4times, The Dog House and OPT having ran excellent equity satellites to the WPT events with Allen Kessler's hated format of re-entry with Best Stack Forward, it is important to have an understanding on what happens to the participants' equity if the winner with a surviving stack decides to re-enter to try to get a bigger stack for Day 2. After discussing this on 2+2 with pros such as Ben "NeverScaredB" Wilinofsky, 0% equity is the worst option as ANY stack that makes it to Day 2 has a decent ICM value (but very difficult to estimate). I recommend that at least the same equity % pass on to any re-entered flight, including swaps and BAPs. Satellite players, please pass this on to the organizers.

    For example, there was a 10% equity share in the OAPL satellite I won for the $1,100 WPT Fallsview 1A along with a % from a previous BAP, so if I decide that my 1A stack is too short and re-enter on Day 1B, then the same % shares will pass on to whatever my Day 2 stack is.


    Other (Rama)

    1) If you win an HPO voucher, want to sell (instead of playing in Las Vegas in late June 2016) and I have a piece of you, I have the right of first refusal, i.e., match the best price that you have been offered. I may also be able to help sell it as I played in the HPO festival at M Resort last year and will be returning to Vegas by June 14 to try to cash again.

    2) If the finalists make a deal involving a voucher instead of playing it out, it should be done during the tournament with the interest of the stakers in mind, ideally with their consent. If you really want to go to the HPO June event, you are free to try to buy a voucher on your own later.

    3) The swap I sometimes use for the Rama tournaments is for the value of winning one of the 3 HPO vouchers (play or sell), and will specify if it includes the cash payouts. One example is if swapper A is the draw winner or finishes in the top two (or makes a deal to end up with a voucher), then he keeps the $500 or other cash prizes, while swapper B gets a % share of the voucher (e.g., 5 or 10%).
    Last edited by BlondeFish; Oct 28,2016 at 11:06 PM.
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
    Wayne Gretzky

  2. #2
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    +1. Great set of rules that are simple and clear! Unlike the Greg Raymer BAP that is bound to be full of disputes and misunderstandings.

  3. #3
    Orangeville Poker Tour SteveKerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlondeFish View Post
    equity satellites to the WPT events with Allen Kessler's hated format of re-entry with Best Stack Forward, it is important to have an understanding on what happens to the participants' equity if the winner decides to re-enter to try to get a bigger stack for Day 2. After discussing this on 2+2 with pros such as Ben "NeverScaredB" Wilinofsky, 0% equity is the worst option as ANY stack that makes it to Day 2 has a decent ICM value (but very difficult to estimate). I recommend that at least the same equity % pass on to any re-entered flight, including swaps and BAPs. Satellite players, please pass this on to the organizers.

    For example, there was a 10% equity share in the OAPL satellite I won for the $1,100 WPT Fallsview 1A along with a % from a previous BAP, so if I decide that my 1A stack is too short AND it is +EV to re-enter on Day 1B, then the same % shares will pass on to whatever my Day 2 stack is.

    Thanks for this. I have not run into this with all the equity satellites I have run. But now with this I can implement it into the equity rules.
    Royal Cup VIII MVP
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  4. #4
    Orangeville Poker Tour SteveKerr's Avatar
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    I never heard about the Fedor Holz and the colluding. When did this happen? And what exactly happened?
    Royal Cup VIII MVP
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  5. #5
    Accidental Poker Tourist BlondeFish's Avatar
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    My mouth dropped when I was watching the live interview and I made some notes with the timeline showing at around 2:57:20 hour. I'm shocked the many people that watched it have not even mentioned this part.



    Quote Originally Posted by SteveKerr View Post
    I never heard about the Fedor Holz and the colluding. When did this happen? And what exactly happened?
    Last edited by BlondeFish; Jan 20,2016 at 12:59 AM.
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
    Wayne Gretzky

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    Full PFC Member UBetIFold's Avatar
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    Nice write up BF.

  7. #7
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    I'm surprised he actually admits to collusion in a high-roller. It's a HUGE disadvantage for the very few players who have 100% of themselves or no pieces of other players.

  8. #8
    Full PFC Member Irunit4times's Avatar
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    Great post! Sticky Note anyone?

  9. #9
    Administrator compuease's Avatar
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    Good suggestion, stickied...
    If someone doesn't hate you, you're a wimp... comp: circa 2012.. and now 2013 as well, quite likely continuing into 2014, Now confirmed as CONTINUING well into 2014. Ah, f'it, 2015's just more of the same..

  10. #10
    Accidental Poker Tourist BlondeFish's Avatar
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    After what happened in WSOP Georgia, I will continue to update OP. Feel free to post suggestions on how to avoid polarized misunderstandings.
    Last edited by BlondeFish; Apr 07,2016 at 08:05 PM.
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
    Wayne Gretzky

  11. #11
    Accidental Poker Tourist BlondeFish's Avatar
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    How to distribute US tax refunds

    I received my US refund cheque (and ITIN) from my WSOP cash last year. I thought the refund company's advertised fee was in Canadian dollars, but both the fee and 13% HST were deducted from the cheque in US dollars, or 33% more than I expected. Here's what I plan to do with the forumer's share: offer choice of US dollars, or convert to Canadian dollars (mid-market closing the night before we meet).

    Beware of any BAP or staking for US tournaments that excludes any tax refund. For example, even if the 2+2 or other seller has no markup, he will need to have an ROI of over 40% for you to make any profit if there is no agreement to share any eventual refund of the 30% tax. If I am playing in an equity satellite where the winner has a choice of playing in a US tournament or elsewhere, I will obviously play outside the US to maximize EV both for myself and the satellite participants.
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
    Wayne Gretzky

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