Thread: Q-10-3 Flop With 77 Pocket

Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Full PFC Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Q-10-3 Flop With 77 Pocket

    Hello everyone,

    I am really struggling right now on how to play lesser pairs. I don't know all of the technical terms that you all know so forgive the basic-ness of my post.

    What value is a 77 when the flop is Q-10-3? Say someone Bets before me on the Flop. Should I just toss the 77 or is it worthwhile to call? If I bet after they have bet and they have a better pair I waste my cash. If I call one bet on the Flop,Turn and River and someone has QQ or TT I have wasted my money.

    I just don't understand how a 77 has such a high EV rating... Well, except when the pot is checked to me. If I play last it may be worth a raise... But if someone called or raised again it wouldn't be worth calling on the Turn and River. I don't know...

    Licentia
    Last edited by Licentia; Nov 13,2009 at 01:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Full PFC Member Little King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    138
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I am really struggling right now on how to play lesser pairs. I don't know all of the technical terms that you all know so forgive the basic-ness of my post.

    What value is a 77 when the flop is Q-10-3? Say someone Bets before me on the Flop. Should I just toss the 77 or is it worthwhile to call? If I bet after they have bet and they have a better pair I waste my cash. If I call one bet on the Flop,Turn and River and someone has QQ or TT I have wasted my money.

    I just don't understand how a 77 has such a high EV rating... Well, except when the pot is checked to me. If I play last it may be worth a raise... But if someone called or raised again it wouldn't be worth calling on the Turn and River. I don't know...

    Licentia
    Alright so, to me this would have to come down to what knowledge you have of the player. If it is a aggressive player betting pre-flop than it is very safe to say he could be any cards. Most likely face card and a rag. Or two standard cards. So the odds of him having a 10 is a possibility. If it is a tight player, than I would assume possible AK, KK, AQ, AJ. So the possibility of having the Q is very possible, or not far from. Possibly 2 over cards and he wants to prove strong. 77 most of the time would be a easy fold in that situation, unless you have a good read, or a strong instinct that you have him beat. Try not to over-think these situations on the spot because you don't want to end up second guessing yourself and making the wrong decission.

    That is my personal opinion, id probably stick around to hear what others say though as I am not the most experienced here.

  3. #3
    darbday
    Guest
    my understanding is to get in cheap with pocket pairs and fold if you don't make your set. the high ev or value comes from making your set and getting called by and over pair to the board or top pair. i think you'll go far with this, and its a good beginer strategy from all books ive read. as far as high ev i think you mean preflop heads up. you 50/50 against almost anything but a higher pair. i use it shortacked when i have to go all in. other than that don't get fancy expect, aq, at, qt, kj, aj and k 9, plus your flushes and 88-AA. learn the notation and learn how to use poker stove.

  4. #4
    Full PFC Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    My EV

    Is it possible that the way that the "experts" calculated EV for a hand like 77 or 88 doesn't work for my play style? And perhaps my personal EV would be different?

    I am going to keep a Spreadsheet window open from now on and track my wins and losses on all hands I call. I'll just see if my results match the experts results.

    Licentia

  5. #5
    Full PFC Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Recommendations Contrary To Experience

    I have been Googling starting hands for several hours now and I am puzzled at the results. Either I am reading it wrong, or the sites are all saying that the more people that call ahead of you, the lesser the quality of the hand is that you should call. These rules are given for games with 8-10 players.

    This is completely contrary to my experience. In my experience, a person with 77 has a much better chance to win the pot against 2 people than against 10. When the flop comes Q-10-3 and there are 2 competitors who are in play, their likely-hood of having a pair of Qs or 10s is much lower than if there are 5 competitors in play at the Flop.

    5 people with 10 hole cards are much more likely to have a pair of QQ or TT than 2 people with 4 hole cards. This is just common sense. Therefore why would anyone want to play 77 at the Flop against a larger table? Why would anyone even call 77 before the Flop when they know 4-7 people could pay to see the Flop?

    Thoughts?

  6. #6
    darbday
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Licentia View Post
    I have been Googling starting hands for several hours now and I am puzzled at the results. Either I am reading it wrong, or the sites are all saying that the more people that call ahead of you, the lesser the quality of the hand is that you should call. These rules are given for games with 8-10 players.

    This is completely contrary to my experience. In my experience, a person with 77 has a much better chance to win the pot against 2 people than against 10. When the flop comes Q-10-3 and there are 2 competitors who are in play, their likely-hood of having a pair of Qs or 10s is much lower than if there are 5 competitors in play at the Flop.

    5 people with 10 hole cards are much more likely to have a pair of QQ or TT than 2 people with 4 hole cards. This is just common sense. Therefore why would anyone want to play 77 at the Flop against a larger table? Why would anyone even call 77 before the Flop when they know 4-7 people could pay to see the Flop?

    Thoughts?
    Im not the expert but here are my thoughts. when you call a bb (limp) and the are say 7 others in the pot you are getting seven to 1 on your money. the chances of winning the pot go down but the pot is bigger so in the longterm it can be worth it (maybe). as for a hand like qq i think youll find somebody will raise that hand, if they don't you can capatilize on there plays later. And your thinking backwards....you'll hit your set on the flop something like 10% of the time, you need to ask what are the chances he'll hit a higher set and it doesn't happen often. when you do hit that set with alot of people in often it will be the best hand and people will need to draw to a better one. Generally you will get a big raise or call with top pair or an over pair, and win huge implied odds. try it.

  7. #7
    fck limit Kristy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    In cyberspace posting 5 to your 1
    Posts
    5,474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    soul read without seeing anything but title...

    Answer c-bet:

    And now to read...

  8. #8
    fck limit Kristy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    In cyberspace posting 5 to your 1
    Posts
    5,474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    damn, soul read fail...

    It depends, what happened pf, who is the villian, etc..too read dependent as asked imo.
    Last edited by Kristy; Nov 13,2009 at 12:53 PM. Reason: edit, I didn't read the answering posts..just the OP

  9. #9
    fck limit Kristy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    In cyberspace posting 5 to your 1
    Posts
    5,474
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    oh LOL..this is LIMIT "poker"...disregard anything I have written.

  10. #10
    darbday
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy_Sea View Post
    oh LOL..this is LIMIT "poker"...disregard anything I have written.

    oh geez....i don't know the limit game ;( its somewhat similar for pocket pairs i think though ...but i don't like to have lots of people so i will do this from middle to late usually

  11. #11
    Part-time grinder JimmyHo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Sitting at a table near you!
    Posts
    3,369
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    being such a lover of the game, I would say fold in NL and fold in limit. Your looking to improve with a 2 outer? on second thought, really a fold in limit.

  12. #12
    Tilting for 5 years!! STR82ACE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Brampton
    Posts
    8,206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    22 - 88...limit or no limit, without reads

    No set...No bet.
    The man who invented poker was bright.
    But the man who invented the poker chip was a genius!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •