Sometimes it pays to make a dumb call :)

SocietyRed

In my defence: I was up already ($15) I always sit down with $20 at 1/2 tables. Every hand pots are getting raised and reraised so I decided to make the call and hope I flop a monster.


PokerStars Game #2413521453: Hold'em Limit ($1/$2) - 2005/08/24 - 17:30:43 (ET)
Table 'Procyon' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Raymond-D ($30.50 in chips)
Seat 2: jussila ($50 in chips)
Seat 3: SocietyRed ($35.50 in chips)
Seat 4: merry ($105.75 in chips)
Seat 5: KurtReply ($34.50 in chips)
Seat 7: engine32 ($21.75 in chips)
Seat 8: MacAce42 ($47.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Iluvmusic ($26 in chips)
Seat 10: webb22 ($80 in chips)
Homer0101010 will be allowed to play after the button
engine32: posts small blind $0.50
MacAce42: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SocietyRed [6d 6h]
Iluvmusic: raises $1 to $2
webb22: folds
Raymond-D: folds
jussila: folds
SocietyRed: calls $2
merry: folds
KurtReply: calls $2
engine32: folds
MacAce42: folds
*** FLOP *** [6s Tc Jd]
Iluvmusic: bets $1
SocietyRed: calls $1
KurtReply: raises $1 to $2
Iluvmusic: raises $1 to $3
SocietyRed: raises $1 to $4
Betting is capped
KurtReply: calls $2
Iluvmusic: calls $1
*** TURN *** [6s Tc Jd] [6c]
Iluvmusic: bets $2
SocietyRed: calls $2
KurtReply: raises $2 to $4
Iluvmusic: raises $2 to $6
SocietyRed: raises $2 to $8
Betting is capped
KurtReply: calls $4
Iluvmusic: calls $2
*** RIVER *** [6s Tc Jd 6c] [4h]
Iluvmusic: checks
SocietyRed: bets $2
KurtReply: calls $2
Iluvmusic: calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SocietyRed: shows [6d 6h] (four of a kind, Sixes)
KurtReply: mucks hand
Iluvmusic: shows [Ac Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
SocietyRed collected $48.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $49.50 | Rake $1
Board [6s Tc Jd 6c 4h]
Seat 1: Raymond-D folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: jussila folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: SocietyRed showed [6d 6h] and won ($48.50) with four of a kind, Sixes
Seat 4: merry folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: KurtReply (button) mucked [Kd Td]
Seat 7: engine32 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: MacAce42 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Iluvmusic showed [Ac Jc] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
Seat 10: webb22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Flint Bones

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a dummy. Why is calling a minimum raise with pockets a dumb call?

BBC Z

Flint Bones wrote:

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a dummy. Why is calling a minimum raise with pockets a dumb call?

Because the minimum raise is also the maximum raise.

He's playing 1/2 Limit.

the_main

SocietyRed wrote:

Iluvmusic: shows [Ac Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
Seat 5: KurtReply (button) mucked [Kd Td]

You were playing with morons. Enjpy thier money

PokerKai

Flint Bones wrote:

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a dummy. Why is calling a minimum raise with pockets a dumb call?

coldcalling small pairs versus an UTG raise without the likelihood of a big multiway pot isnt a great idea in a limit hold'em game because a lot of the value flopped set value goes down without lots of people to pay you off. but its a very minor mistake at a 1/2 game where its not too unlikely youll get other coldcallers.

PokerKai

oh and i really dont like your call reraise on the flop and turn. it probably wouldnt have changed the outcome of the hand, but this sort of line just screams MONSTER and against reasonable opponents is going to absolutely kill your action.

zero

PokerKai wrote:

oh and i really dont like your call reraise on the flop and turn. it probably wouldnt have changed the outcome of the hand, but this sort of line just screams MONSTER and against reasonable opponents is going to absolutely kill your action.

Thats the keyword, most people at 1/2 are terrible.

PokerKai

zero wrote:

PokerKai wrote:

oh and i really dont like your call reraise on the flop and turn.  it probably wouldnt have changed the outcome of the hand, but this sort of line just screams MONSTER and against reasonable opponents is going to absolutely kill your action.

Thats the keyword, most people at 1/2 are terrible.

that doesnt mean we should play down to their level... its like arguing 2+2 = 5 to a group of babies...you cant blow off the incorrect math by saying the babies dont understand what your talking about.

you shouldnt be content to rely on the inadequacies of your opponents, when there is so much to be gained from studying the inadequacies in your own play.

saxman1959

Sorry but I have to comment about the remark that most people playing 1/2 being terrible. Sure there are a lot of bad players but there are also a lot of good recreational players in small stakes games. I enjoy watching the big boys play and trust me I have seen some pretty bizarre play in a $30/60 game as well. Watched a guy on Party the other nite blow through about $2000.00 in an hour by playing / raising virtually every hand he was dealt regardless of the cards and or position. I only wish I had the resources to join and to help relieve him of some of the money he was so bent on spending.

BBC Z

that doesnt mean we should play down to their level... its like arguing 2+2 = 5 to a group of babies...you cant blow off the incorrect math by saying the babies dont understand what your talking about.

you shouldnt be content to rely on the inadequacies of your opponents, when there is so much to be gained from studying the inadequacies in your own play.

Here is an idea for you. READ THE HAND HISTORY.

Hero flops the set on a relatively unscary board and has the person on his RIGHT bet out. Now, do you really want to face the table with calling two cold? Most crappy players will call 1 bet but fold for two.

On the turn he makes the nuts and again, Righty bets. Are you going to face the table with calling two cold on the turn? It's worth far more to keep the players in than knock they all out to potentially get 3 bet by Righty.

I think this hand is WELL PLAYED aside from a marginal preflop raise call.

but this sort of line just screams MONSTER and against reasonable opponents is going to absolutely kill your action.

LOL!!! Someone calling down at a 1/2 table screams monster? I hope you never look under your bed.

ScoobyD

I always sit down with $20 at 1/2 tables.

Is it just me or this a ridiculously tiny amount for a game with this much variance? (especially if you're going to call 2 cold with small pairs).

ScottyZ

ScoobyD wrote:

I always sit down with $20 at 1/2 tables.

Is it just me or this a ridiculously tiny amount for a game with this much variance? (especially if you're going to call 2 cold with small pairs).

Yes. And you could have stopped at the word "amount".

ScottyZ

PokerKai

BBC Z wrote:

that doesnt mean we should play down to their level...  its like arguing 2+2 = 5 to a group of babies...you cant blow off the incorrect math by saying the babies dont understand what your talking about.

you shouldnt be content to rely on the inadequacies of your opponents, when there is so much to be gained from studying the inadequacies in your own play.

Here is an idea for you. READ THE HAND HISTORY.

Hero flops the set on a relatively unscary board and has the person on his RIGHT bet out. Now, do you really want to face the table with calling two cold? Most crappy players will call 1 bet but fold for two.

I did read it. Smooth calling the flop is fine, your hand is fairly strong, and you arent giving anybody incorrect odds by raising who wouldnt be calling the flop anyways (i.e. OESDs). But when you cap it when it comes to you, youve essentially told everybody your hand. By not raising the turn, you are relying on the idiocy of the players behind you to pump the pot. The best way to make money is to pump UTG (who OBVIOUSLY has a hand he likes) AJ, JJ, TT, AA, KK, QQ...

Also, button normally isnt going to 3bet the flop and raise the turn with second pair good kicker. By not raising the turn, we are often closing the action, losing the oppurtunity to be payed off by the obvious strong utg hand.

BBC Z wrote:

but this sort of line just screams MONSTER and against reasonable opponents is going to absolutely kill your action.

LOL!!! Someone calling down at a 1/2 table screams monster? I hope you never look under your bed.

I am not referring to the simple call down...I am referring to the call raise line he took on the flop and turn streets. Please dont quote me out of context.

BBC Z

But when you cap it when it comes to you, youve essentially told everybody your hand

Untrue, with 3 players involved in the pot there are a wide range of hands that want to cap for various reasons.

By not raising the turn, you are relying on the idiocy of the players behind you to pump the pot

What if hero's read was that he's sitting at a table of idiots? Is he not allowed to rely on their 'idiocy'? You make some very bold and condescending statements to the Hero who gave no reads of any of the players at the table or table conditions or his image or anything... You just seem to assume they're all thinking players.. SURPRISE! They're not! Look at the hand history!

I'm all for taking the kid gloves off, but I think you have to have way more information to just start talking down to the OP about the way he reasonably played his hand.

Please dont quote me out of context.

Wouldn't you know, I'm all out of 'rolling eyes' smileys..

PokerKai

Im not talking down to anybody nor am I being condescending. If I am come off as such, I sincerely apologize to anybody that has taken offense. Its simply my writing style.

I am just giving my opinon based on a LACK of reads. Sure if theres a read, then you can play the hand in a number of different ways...but theres always a general play based on the texture of the board, the content of your holdings, and the betting patterns of previous streets.

Im realize your arguement has simply come down to "were playing against no thinking players"

I just dont think making 1bb from the button by smooth calling the mortal nuts on the turn is as profitable as a raise which will ensure you at least the same 1bb (nevermind the times he 3bets, never mind the times button coldcalls, nevermind the times button is going to raise regardless of your action).

SocietyRed

My read on the table was that they were very loose. Some of these guys would re-raise with mid pair etc. My thinking was that after I folded the last 5 pairs I was dealt that I was due to hit trips, so I took a chance and happen to get paid for it. Making a play like that is ok as long as you dont get married to the hand. As for capping the bet, I doubt that these players even noticed my betting style. I folded the last 20 hands and they still raised me. This was a well stocked pond and I enjoyed every minute I sat at it.

Red

Gord

nvm, i just noticed his post that said the table was very very loose

otherwise i 3-bet preflop or fold

ScoobyD

3-bet preflop and i like the rest fine

Have you been reading Hellmuth's book?