In a tournament and someone raises and u have J Q suited in say spades, flop comes 10 K spades and 7 diamonds. What would u do if the raiser puts u all in?
Well, there are a lot of variables, but if you put your opponent on top pair top kicker (we'll even give him the As for the redraw) it's pretty much a coinflip. Â Working with that assumption (your opponent has one pair) the same coinflip considerations need to be made: do you want to flip a coin? Â Do you need to flip a coin?
Interestingly enough, against two pair (KT, for example) you're still pretty much a coinflip. Â And against a set of tens, you're not in terrible shape (about 42% to win). Â A call isn't terrible against pretty much any hand, then, especially if either you or your opponent are shortstacked. Â And, the possibility exists that your opponent is semi-bluffing a draw that is worse than yours. I'd say call and hope for the best, unless, say, you're on the bubble of the tournament and the money means enough to you that you feel it's best to avoid coinflips, etc.
Unless your already in the money or your looking for a double up because your short stacked(which doesn't seem to be the case here) I think you have to play the apponent and figure out why he's put you all in. On one side of the coin you may double up, but don't forget the other side. Your tournament life is left to a flip of a coin. Unless I thought this was a straight out bluff, I'd have no problems folding because I'd rather lose 15% of my stack and fight a battle I know I will win than lose and be eliminated from a tournament for a "chance" of doubling up. there are plenty of chances in tounament play to double up, choose wisely.
Unless I thought this was a straight out bluff, I'd have no problems folding because I'd rather lose 15% of my stack and fight a battle I know I will win than lose and be eliminated from a tournament for a "chance" of doubling up. there are plenty of chances in tounament play to double up, choose wisely.
I used to think this way too. I mean, if you are a 4-1 dog, you're very likely to lose. So why bother? As I recall, this is along the lines of Sklansky (but I have to go back and re-read him again).
Harrington is much more along the lines if the pot is offering 5-1 then being a 4-1 dog is still a good gamble. I am having a hard time reconciling the two positions. Can anyone offer any insights?
The other problem with your position is you never *know* you are going to win any particular battle unless you have the immortal stone cold nuts. That happens rarely. Bad beats happen. Both for and against.
"Avoid small edges in favour of larger edges later in the tournament." --Sklansky.
How do these reconcile? If God is to be believed, shouldn't we take ALL positive gambles? Well, it will never be THAT BIG a mistake to get your money in with an edge. Period. So, for instance, opting for a coinflip is never THAT big a disaster.
The question is "When should I overule God in favour of David Sklansky?" This is tough. And, as far as I know, has never been adequately quantified since it will be VERY VERY hard to quantify what future edges one will be able to acheive?
So, when one says, "I would pass and wait for a better opportunity" this person should have some compelling reasons to believe that they will be able to find SUBSTANTIALLY bigger edges later on.
In my case, at 3-2 I put ALL my money in at ANY point of a tourney since I do not think I can ever KNOW that I will get a better chance to double up. Will I double my stack more than 60% of the time if I fold this chance to do so? Seems doubtful to me.
Comments
Interestingly enough, against two pair (KT, for example) you're still pretty much a coinflip. Â And against a set of tens, you're not in terrible shape (about 42% to win). Â A call isn't terrible against pretty much any hand, then, especially if either you or your opponent are shortstacked. Â And, the possibility exists that your opponent is semi-bluffing a draw that is worse than yours. I'd say call and hope for the best, unless, say, you're on the bubble of the tournament and the money means enough to you that you feel it's best to avoid coinflips, etc.
Call the floor and get the guy to quit touching my chips.
I would call, getting around 1.5 to 1 for my money with what figure to be around 1 to 1 win odds.
Were you second to act after the flop? Were other players still in the hand on the flop?
ScottyZ
A coinflip only counts as a coinflip without money already in the pot. With a bunch of dead money the the pot you have an easy call.
Soooooo.... what happened? Please tell me you hit your straight/flush and busted that slackjaw.
No, man. It's got to be a bad beat story. Otherwise, why bother posting it?
Opponent has 22 and catches running quads including the 2s falling on the turn.
Ouch!
ScottyZ
My opinion though.
would like to know what happened here too.
Harrington is much more along the lines if the pot is offering 5-1 then being a 4-1 dog is still a good gamble. I am having a hard time reconciling the two positions. Can anyone offer any insights?
The other problem with your position is you never *know* you are going to win any particular battle unless you have the immortal stone cold nuts. That happens rarely. Bad beats happen. Both for and against.
"Avoid small edges in favour of larger edges later in the tournament." --Sklansky.
How do these reconcile? If God is to be believed, shouldn't we take ALL positive gambles? Well, it will never be THAT BIG a mistake to get your money in with an edge. Period. So, for instance, opting for a coinflip is never THAT big a disaster.
The question is "When should I overule God in favour of David Sklansky?" This is tough. And, as far as I know, has never been adequately quantified since it will be VERY VERY hard to quantify what future edges one will be able to acheive?
So, when one says, "I would pass and wait for a better opportunity" this person should have some compelling reasons to believe that they will be able to find SUBSTANTIALLY bigger edges later on.
In my case, at 3-2 I put ALL my money in at ANY point of a tourney since I do not think I can ever KNOW that I will get a better chance to double up. Will I double my stack more than 60% of the time if I fold this chance to do so? Seems doubtful to me.