trips on board with action

nl game with 72 option, players are fairly deep ~ 200-400 BBs. we are 7- or 8-handed at this point.

not sure about the PF action. EP player limps, couple more limpers, button may have put in a small raise, SB calls, EP calls, one other caller. or it may have been something like a 4 or 5 way limped pot.

flop comes Ax8s2s. EP makes 1/3 - 1/2 pot bet, button calls, SB calls.

turn Ax. checked to button. he bets about 1/2 pot, SB calls, EP calls.

river Ax. running trips on board but flush draw did not complete. SB bets out > 1/2 pot. EP looks frustrated. checks button for any sign of interest then raises to > 2x pot, still < 1/2 his stack. button chuckles and says that was what he was about to do. and goes into the tank for a bit.

a bit about the players.
* SB is not a strong player but he is improving. plays loose and overvalues his hands. tends to call down light. frequently passive but when he does bet, he usually has some kind of made hand. the other players in the hand recognize this. he has bought in short, busted and rebought. a couple times. recent double up takes him > 200BBs, maybe close to 300BBs? as an example: limped from BB or EP in an earlier hand with KK, made a big bet on the river on an A-high board and was called by our current EP player with A-rag.
* EP might be the most experienced player of the 3. he plays a bit tight but has loosened up with the 72 game and pulled off a couple 72 bluffs. he has > 400 BBs.
* button is a good aggressive player. plays loose but smart. he has taken a couple of 72 pots as well. he has called and lost with a couple of 'second best' hands (i.e. 6 high flush), if that is relevant. he has > 300 BBs.
* EP and button have played a few sessions against each other. they know each other's games well.

so, how strong does button's hand have to be here to call? call > raise?

what kind of range can you put SB on?

what kind of range can you put EP on?

more to follow...

Comments

  • Whenever there is a lot of action on an AAA board, someone likely has Ax.

    Where are you hiding this action game :)
  • pokerJAH wrote: »
    Whenever there is a lot of action on an AAA board, someone likely has Ax.
    EP knows this. Button knows EP knows this. EP knows button knows EP knows. And so on.


    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
  • pokerJAH wrote: »
    Where are you hiding this action game
    Do you even forum?


    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
  • so, just fold if you don't have Ax?

    even though 72 'got there'? or an 8 is probably good?

    if button has Ax, raise >> call?
  • pkrfce9 wrote: »
    EP knows this. Button knows EP knows this. EP knows button knows EP knows. And so on.


    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU

    Sorry I am still stuck in this loop.... I may be a while.
  • Auto loop detection after 100

    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
  • way too many variables involved in this hand
  • i can see how this would be a challenge for you
  • When EP sticks in 2x the pot, he's either got a monster or complete air. The monsters include 99+ and of course Ax.


    99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK I think are less likely given the limped pot, but not totally out of the question. From EP he may have been expecting someone to raise, leaving a spot to 3 bet, etc.


    Hands like 98, 87, T8, etc are a possibility, but I think even less likely with two players to act. Against SB alone (and heavily based on the player notes) I think value betting 2x the pot is OK against the SB (as was the button's plan) - but into two players, it needs to be stronger for an overbet like that.


    So maybe a large bluff? Going back to those player notes, we are up against the un-bluffable showdown master in the SB, so I have to give even less credit to a bluff. I'd go as far to say that this is *never* a bluff, we're going to see at minimum AAA88 every time.

    So we're left with Ax, then the overpairs, then the hands with an 8 - in that order of likeliness.


    Given the above, IMO the answers are:


    how strong does button's hand have to be here to call?

    JJ+, maybe 99+?


    call > raise?

    Definitely. SB doesn't like to fold but we don't want to give him a reason to..


    what kind of range can you put SB on?


    wide. really wide. Really felt like a deuce the whole way, but it really could have been any two.


    what kind of range can you put EP on?

    Ax, 99+, plus 98, 78, T8 "sometimes"
  • gold star for andrew. nice analysis since you have notes on the hand :) don't let it go to your head. you still have to work on your gif game.

    SB has some kind of boat here. he would almost never be 'bluffing' here. we know he is never folding so EP would be foolish to bluff. sort of like lighting a $30 bill on fire and throwing it in a hole. SB could possibly have in order: 8x, 2x, 22+, Ax. you are right - almost any two. that is the beauty of the dynamic here.

    I think EP could sometimes have less than 8x. maybe 55+ and hoping to get to showdown against SB? maybe not since button is the wild card.

    if EP just calls or puts in a small raise, does button ever re-raise with 8x or better?
  • pkrfce9 wrote: »
    gold star for andrew. nice analysis since you have notes on the hand :) don't let it go to your head. you still have to work on your gif game.

    fa34t3.gif

    2uele7q.gif
  • So did someone have Ax already?
  • The joy is in the journey Jimmy

    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
  • i forgot about this thread.

    none of the players have less than a full house. i think all 3 of them played it wrong.

    button has 8x. what is his play?
  • at lower stakes holdems, when people raise river with hands that most likely are nuttish type, they usually are. especially in these types of hhs where many forms of 2 cards hands are seeing a flop.
  • Maybe not "standard" ... but wrong?? Nah. I think given the adjustments made based on players in the hand, EP and buttton played it perfectly.
  • pokerJAH wrote: »
    Where are you hiding this action game :)
    When are you going to stop over for this rake-free 72 game?
  • Bfillmaff wrote: »
    Maybe not "standard" ... but wrong?? Nah. I think given the adjustments made based on players in the hand, EP and buttton played it perfectly.

    ok button was a genius.

    i think a better play would have been for EP to put in a small raise and have button jam, no?
  • What hands does button jam into a raise and a player behind? An 8 is far from the nuts... Were betting into 99 TT JJ QQ KK Ax some of the time, and getting called by what else?
  • EP's overbet extracted max value out of the SB, winning the full stack. Compare that with betting $30 or so, it would have gone call/call or even worse call/fold. Yes you reveal your strength to the button, but the odds of a big call from the SB are too huge to do anything but bet for as much value as possible. EP was the genius IMO.
  • I hope button folded river because an 8 (or any boat) is pretty much never good here. Makes no sense for EP to over-bet raise river with a boat when the person who repped an ace on the street before is still to act.
  • pkrfce9 wrote: »
    so, just fold if you don't have Ax?

    even though 72 'got there'? or an 8 is probably good?

    if button has Ax, raise >> call?

    Imo,

    - Fold if you don't have an ace.
    - 72 does not exist in EP's range by the river.
    - An 8 is never good.
    - Raise quads. SB will probably call off anyway and EP plays much worse than previously thought if he's making that raise with less than quads.

    In summary:
    - Raise quads
    - Fold everything else
    - There is no calling range
  • I should not be playing against you guys. EP did in fact have the Ace. He didn't calculate SBs stack size correctly though and left him with 50+ bbs.

    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
  • I hope button folded river because an 8 (or any boat) is pretty much never good here. Makes no sense for EP to over-bet raise river with a boat when the person who repped an ace on the street before is still to act.

    Button folded 78. SB called w/ a 2. EP pulled out his nuts and showed them to the table, then had a snickers.
  • Bfillmaff wrote: »
    Button folded 78. SB called w/ a 2. EP pulled out his nuts and showed them to the table, then had a snickers.

    I thought he had his way with lepers wife?

    tapatalk puts this here to annoy YOU
  • BlondeFish wrote: »
    When are you going to stop over for this rake-free 72 game?

    Anytine but I don't like waiting around for players to bust out of a tournament before a cash game breaks out. I am too spoiled with my local cash games that always start on time and I can reserve a seat.
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