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over calling range?

UnknownUnknown
in MTT Strategy
Day 2 of a Live 260 re entry mtt

I have ~65k on the btn at 600/1200

Utg1 opens to 2400 , I 3b to 5500

Sb Rips for 28k , and utg1 reshoves for 50k...

What hands are we calling with ?
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Comments

  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    7c4c
  • BlondeFishBlondeFish
    OHTNCTRHM wrote: »
    Day 2 of a Live 260 re entry mtt
    I have ~65k on the btn at 600/1200
    Which $260 live event is this? Are you ITM or close to the bubble in Day 2? What are the antes and how many players? What are your reads on UTG+1 and SB?
    What hands are we calling with ?
    None!
  • UnknownUnknown
    I'm out of province right now, this is a bf approved (I hope) mtt of 250+10 (the 10 is a charitable donation)

    This is day 2 , 105 runners total , came back to day 2 with 35 left

    We had a roll back of blinds . My flight (day 1a) ended at 500/1000 , so u can imagine how elated I was to come back to 300/600 :laugh:

    When this hand happened , there was about 28 players left, and only final table of 9 paid out

    Utg1 was an older gentleman that I had picked off bluffing earlier when I made a call with 66 on a board of t32tJ in a pretty big pot . I made him show and he had q7 lol :frown:

    Sb to my left was a younger kid that had just doubled , he got in ats against jj and ran out the flush . He was so short , the all in was the only hand he had played

    As for me, I had been pretty active, chipping up for 3 levels, got in a pre flop war and 5 bet a guy with air and showed, so maybe my image was shot :-X
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    You're asking if you should risk 50k of your 65k to potentially leave yourself with 15k after a raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and push rerereraise. AND you just said your image is shot.

    If your hand isn't AA or KK WTF is the point of this post aside from some weird self indulgence?

    Mark
  • UnknownUnknown
    DrTyore wrote: »
    You're asking if you should risk 50k of your 65k to potentially leave yourself with 15k after a raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and push rerereraise. AND you just said your image is shot.

    If your hand isn't AA or KK WTF is the point of this post aside from some weird self indulgence?

    Mark

    I'm thinking my image being shot , May have had a factor in villains thinking I'm lighter than I actually was , thus making utg1 iso lightish Because he may have thought my button raise was just me getting out of line

    I had QQ

    What do u guys do ?
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    QQ is like, a VERY speculative hand IMO

    Mark
  • UnknownUnknown
    DrTyore wrote: »
    QQ is like, a VERY speculative hand IMO

    Mark

    Is it tho?
  • hiphopopotamushiphopopotamus
    The range I was thinking about was queens plus and maybe AK. You could provide a lot more information (like old guy's EP raising range, exact action on the Q7 hand, average stack, etc) but given what you've told us, I'd be happy with going with queens.
  • BlondeFishBlondeFish
    Since neither villains are dead-money nits whose re-raising ranges are wider than just [KK, AA], I would try to talk to them and seriously consider going all-in myself with QQ (or AK+).

    This was very similar to my final hand in the $200 Sunday major. Against two all-ins, I called with QQ. First all-in had AK, but second had AA. What did UTG+1 and SB have?
    OHTNCTRHM wrote: »
    Utg1 was an older gentleman that I had picked off bluffing earlier when I made a call with 66 on a board of t32tJ in a pretty big pot . I made him show and he had q7 lol :frown:

    Sb to my left was a younger kid that had just doubled , he got in ats against jj and ran out the flush . He was so short , the all in was the only hand he had played

    As for me, I had been pretty active, chipping up for 3 levels, got in a pre flop war and 5 bet a guy with air and showed, so maybe my image was shot :-X
  • UnknownUnknown
    I went into the tank for a while, and carefully put ranges and tournament life into consideration

    I put the SB on a smaller pair or ak, and put the older fellow on similar range... Maybe even a little wider . I went to muck, when at that moment , decided to go for it. I figured winning this pot would put me in really good shape to cash and to put pressure on shorties and to keep chipping up

    obviously I was wrong and dead pre, SB had AK and old man utg1 had KK.. A on river, so I was down to 10beibers

    out next hand when I tilt shoved k9s into qq

    really wish I could make good folds live, I just never think anyone has it :mad:
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    OHTNCTRHM wrote: »
    I went into the tank for a while, and carefully put ranges and tournament life into consideration

    I put the SB on a smaller pair or ak, and put the older fellow on similar range... Maybe even a little wider . I went to muck, when at that moment , decided to go for it. I figured winning this pot would put me in really good shape to cash and to put pressure on shorties and to keep chipping up

    obviously I was wrong and dead pre, SB had AK and old man utg1 had KK.. A on river, so I was down to 10beibers

    out next hand when I tilt shoved k9s into qq

    really wish I could make good folds live, I just never think anyone has it :mad:

    live poker

    (pro)
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    OHTNCTRHM wrote: »
    I went to muck, when at that moment , decided to go for it. I figured winning this pot would put me in really good shape to cash and to put pressure on shorties and to keep chipping up

    you are too inexperienced

    live poker

    (pro)
  • UnknownUnknown
    ya, live is hard.

    thanks for insight !
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    I would need good reason to fold QQ here....opponents as described, I'm happily getting it in.....not backflip-highfive-snap call happy.........just happy.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    This is super deep. I dont fold QQ often.

    Both villains have no reason to be playing around given action already. Guy shoving 2obb to begin knows cards are getting shown.

    I fold QQ here.
  • UnknownUnknown
    ya, pretty tilting all things considered , 3 way all ins when best case you are flipping is suicide , just hard to find a fold when there's only 2 hands that have me crushed

    its hard not to be results oriented , but I just wanted to see what u guys thought. If i had won, i would have thought i was a genius , and there wouldnt be a thread lol

    thanks for help
  • BlondeFishBlondeFish
    It's not super deep, though. Assuming there were antes, SB who "rips for 28K" has an M of only ~10. UTG+1 has an M of ~18, but has already put 2 BB in.
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    This is super deep. I dont fold QQ often.
  • UnknownUnknown
    No antes yet at this point
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    BlondeFish wrote: »
    It's not super deep, though. Assuming there were antes, SB who "rips for 28K" has an M of only ~10. UTG+1 has an M of ~18, but has already put 2 BB in.

    20+ BB is pretty deep in any kind of regular MTT imo.

    88 and 99 not in a cold 4b shove range with 20+bb.

    Just my opinion.
  • hiphopopotamushiphopopotamus
    I don't think it's out of his range to be 4 betting AQ, AJs and 88+ depending on how loose/aggressive/bad UTG+1 is. Only info we have is that he tried to bluff a semi-big pot with Q7. The button 3b isn't really scary coming from someone who's 5 bet and shown air.

    I think folding queens is fine but, in a vacuum, I'm calling off here more often that not. The fact that you still have 12-13bb if you lose (which is enough to work with, especially w/o antes), makes me more likely to call too.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Its the cold 4b that tightens the range IMO. Something about random live amateurs and how they perceive a 3B from and UTG open. IDK, just doesn't feel good. HU, Im snapping a 4B here all day.

    But a cold 4 followed by an iso shove makes me feel really unhappy about my hand.

    Unless héros been showing down random 3b garbage (which prob wouldn't be me).
  • The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
    I am also folding all but KK and AA here. In fact I think I just read a near identical example of this in the Harrington book I am reading with the same advice.
  • Card DeadCard Dead
    With 50 bigs behind and limited info I fold QQ here every time.

    At best, they both have underpairs or both have AK, but how often are you going to be in that spot?

    Your image is not that relevant here IMO, as the old guy re-shoved over top of the 4-bet from the SB, not over your 3-bet. And if he's reading the SB as strong, you gotta think the old guy is pretty strong here also.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Card Dead wrote: »
    With 50 bigs behind and limited info I fold QQ here every time.

    At best, they both have underpairs or both have AK, but how often are you going to be in that spot?

    Your image is not that relevant here IMO, as the old guy re-shoved over top of the 4-bet from the SB, not over your 3-bet. And if he's reading the SB as strong, you gotta think the old guy is pretty strong here also.

    u dont think he could be isolating with AQs+ TT+ ?
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    OHTNCTRHM wrote: »
    u dont think he could be isolating with AQs+ TT+ ?

    I played a tournament at Brantford about 6 weeks ago and opened 12bb utg+1 and Old dude bb folded aq Faceup.

    Iono if this range is accurate for this dude.

    Comp, what would you do :arghh:
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    I played a tournament at Brantford about 6 weeks ago and opened 12bb utg+1 and Old dude bb folded aq Faceup.

    Iono if this range is accurate for this dude.

    Comp, what would you do :arghh:

    looooool

    Alot of gold in this post
  • Card DeadCard Dead
    OHTNCTRHM wrote: »
    u dont think he could be isolating with AQs+ TT+ ?

    I try not to put ppl on hands I want them to have, but rather, hands that make sense.

    Without Intel on this guy, I would assume he's an average player and an average player is not likely to shove light on a guy who picked off his bluff with an under pair, as he figures your calling range is wider than average.

    The absolute low end of his range here is TT or AQ suited (and since you have 2 Qs, this is pretty unlikely), but what % of the time is he going to have one of the 3 hands you crush (TT, JJ, AQ)? Its far more likely he has AK, KK, or AA.

    Also, what range are you putting SB on? I'm putting him on similar range, or slightly better, and you can't discount him because you're investing more in the main pot than the side pot. 28k vs 22k

    So the question is, how often are you beating both these guys?

    I say almost never, and I fold every time.
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    I played a tournament at Brantford about 6 weeks ago and opened 12bb utg+1 and Old dude bb folded aq Faceup.

    Iono if this range is accurate for this dude.

    Comp, what would you do :arghh:

    Against you? Jam all day...:) Against another old dude? Think about it and jam.. Now if this was a satellite and at the bubble, certainly think longer.. But yeh jam..

    Answer above to Wetts open.. To the question from op, fold 90%, jam 5% and fall asleep the other 5.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Lol how old is comp actually

    I'm scared to know because my mental image of him is the nuts (never met him irl, but I have an imagination of what he looks like)

    Also, comp is pro IE and pro bb , and that shit is funny as hell to me. Has to be a level

    I do thinK folding is correct btw, even after the results. Old men are just nits , and ALWAYS have it. I'll keep this in mind next time I flick live :)
  • The_AwesomeThe_Awesome
    Watson.JPG
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