Tourney hand

ScoobyD

My bust out hand from yesterdays $200 + $15 $350,000 guaranteed tourney on Stars. Looking for your thoughts on how I should have played the hand. In hindsight I think maybe I should have just pushed on the flop and taken my chances, since the bet I made had me pretty much pot committed anyways. Should I have raised more preflop? I wanted to leave myself with an out if the flop was truly horrid. I still can't understand how someone was willing to risk like 2/3 of their stack on that hand in that position...

POKERSTARS GAME #1086908628: TOURNAMENT #4329988, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL IV (50/100) - 2005/01/16 - 17:18:23 (ET)
Table '4329988 92' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: beanie35 (2620 in chips)
Seat 2: ClayftKnight (4470 in chips)
Seat 3: paul1975 (2250 in chips)
Seat 4: jfishys (3670 in chips)
Seat 5: Kunstneren (2035 in chips)
Seat 6: ScoobyD (1480 in chips)
Seat 7: jrdowns (2905 in chips)
Seat 8: risky buss (2920 in chips)
Seat 9: Believer82 (2165 in chips)
risky buss: posts small blind 50
Believer82: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScoobyD [Qc As]
beanie35: folds
ClayftKnight: folds
paul1975: calls 100
jfishys: folds
Kunstneren: folds
ScoobyD: raises 300 to 400
jrdowns: folds
risky buss: folds
Believer82: folds
paul1975: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [Qd 5d 7c]
paul1975: checks
ScoobyD: bets 600
paul1975: calls 600
*** TURN *** [Qd 5d 7c] [3s]
paul1975: checks
ScoobyD: bets 480 and is all-in
paul1975: calls 480
*** RIVER *** [Qd 5d 7c 3s] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
paul1975: shows [8h 6d] (a straight, Four to Eight)
ScoobyD: shows [Qc As] (a pair of Queens)
paul1975 collected 3110 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3110 | Rake 0
Board [Qd 5d 7c 3s 4h]
Seat 1: beanie35 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ClayftKnight folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: paul1975 showed [8h 6d] and won (3110) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 4: jfishys folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Kunstneren folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ScoobyD showed [Qc As] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 7: jrdowns (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: risky buss (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: Believer82 (big blind) folded before Flop

Pigga

First, i hope that someone doesnt call a 3x BB raise w/ 86o....

I dont like the flop bet here because, its more than half your remaining stack.....should of just pushed all in here imo, b/c if he is on a draw, he will probably call a bet on the turn for a lesser amount....i'd say either push in on the flop (he'd probably still call), or make a small 300 bet on flop, and push all in on turn......750 (ish) is lot more to call with only one more card coming....maybe a fold was in order there.....but the way the other guy played it......i think as soon as he saw he was open ended, he was going to see it through.

just my 2 cents

Pigga

ScottyZ

If you're going to raise pre-flop, the exact amount should be the standard pre-flop raise you have decided to make for the level, plus 100 more for the limper.

Limping in with this hand (after one limper) is also a valid option I think. Unless you have a read on the limper that he/she is unusually weak for a raise back when limping*, your chances of picking up the pot right now are slim.

Of course, raising is good too.

Supposing I did raise with AQo pre-flop, I think I would simply move all-in on the flop. This flop, together with my stack size, has committed me to a showdown, and I can see no reason to slowplay here, as it is difficult to imagine my hand being strong enough for my opponent to be able to "catch up" and my hand still being good.

If I had limped-in, it's more of a sticky situation, as the stacks are still relatively deep. I probably bet pot-ish on the flop and move the rest in on the turn.

Unfortunately, I think you have inticed the opponent to draw at the straight by distributing your bet into two managable chunks. Regardless of how much of his stack his portion of the pot represents, he appears to have close to the correct odds to call on both the flop and turn.

ScottyZ

*The results-based assessment is that he/she will call with any two.

Chugs

You made bets that screamed for a call. To be honest i think you likely made the bet on the flop, at a size that you hoped might actually get called. You figured you were ahead and likely couldn't lose the hand, so you wanted to double up. In a tourney situation they pushing in would have been a better option, but he may well have called you anyways on the flop even if you pished all-in

ScoobyD

Strictly speaking, I don't think he had odds to call my flop bet (although in hindsight I'm not sure he is aware of pot or implied odds). By my math, he's calling 600 into a 1550 pot giving him 2.58:1 on his call on a 5:1 draw. Even if you factor in implied odds (my stack wasn't deep), he's getting 3.38:1 assuming he hits on the turn. In hindsight my flop bet was poor, since if he was deciding to gamble on the flop, I've both pot committed myself, as well as not having enough chips to make the turn call incorrect, since he's now getting 5.48 on the 5:1 call. As Pigga mentioned, either the allin on the flop, or the small flop bet, and allin on turn would clearly be the better play, although I haven't decided which I like better...

ScottyZ

Well, the problem is with two cards to come, the drawing odds are better than 5 to 1. Whether to count two card draws 1 or 2 cards at a time is a difficult question when more money remains for turn betting.

Whether to figure the money odds as pot/implied/effective is tricky since your opponent does not know your turn action. If your opponent is certain you will bet the turn *and* knows what cards you have, then calling your flop bet is pretty close with a two card draw in terms of EV. However, your opponent may think there is some chance you will not bet the turn. (Just because you appear pot committed doesn't force you to do the betting.) Your opponent could put you on nothing, and be trying to snap off a bluff with a river bet in case he misses. Or think that he may have 6 extra outs.

Even though I seem to be defending your opponent's play, your opponent is, I think, making a mistake here on the flop. However, knowing this, you should probably try to adjust your own betting so that he makes the worst mistake possible.

The trouble with leaving your opponent with a "close" pot (or whatever) odds decision is that they tend to call you.

ScottyZ

ScoobyD

Thanks for the replies guys. Although this might have come off a bit bad beatish, I didn't intend it to be. As much as I can't understand my opponents play, I was aware I didn't play the hand as well as I should have, and if I can avoid mistakes like this in the future then I see this as a valuable lesson learned (since it was a relatively cheap buyin winning won of those crapshoot rebuy satellites). As Chugs mentioned, I think greed was a factor, as I wanted to double on that flop, and should have been more concerned about pushing out legitamate drawing hands (like the diamond draw).